David Schwartz: One of the
things they learn how to do is
how to have actual conversations
with people and how to listen-
Jennifer Lee: Oh.
… David Schwartz: right?
And not just wait till somebody else
stops talking so that you can then talk.
Because otherwise the
interview's a, a joke, right?
And 'cause one of the things they
do need to do is they all need
to do at least one interview.
And so somebody will say, they'll be
interviewing someone, this person goes,
"Yes, and that was, when I was abducted
by aliens." And then the student will
say, "And how old are you?" Like, what?
No, stop.
You know?
It's like s- Someone just said something
really interesting, and you were trying
to get everything answered on your list.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah.
David Schwartz: And so they learn
how to be giving, like, giving people
in conversation, and they learn
that when somebody feels heard,
they're more willing to open up.
Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing
Studies, a podcast for higher
education podcasters who want to
learn, connect, and get inspired.
I'm Neil McPhedran, founder
of HigherEdPods.com and
Podium Podcast Company.
Jennifer Lee: And I'm Jennifer
Lee, founder of JPod Creations.
Podcasting is broadcasting.
If you're podcasting in
higher ed, you're not alone.
There is a fast-growing
community out there, and we're
here to help you tap into it.
Also, we'd love it if
you email your ideas.
We want you to be on our show, or if you
know somebody that wants to be on our
show and interview them, all you have to
do is find our email in the show notes.
Neil McPhedran: We're on the other end
of the email waiting to hear from you.
Jennifer Lee: Just waiting.
Neil McPhedran: Just waiting.
Okay, Jen, so today our
guest is Dr. David Schwartz.
He is associate professor and chair
of communication studies at Augustana
College, which is in Rock Island,
Illinois, and he teaches across
communication studies and multimedia
journalism and mass communication.
And we got him here today talking to
us because he has built and he teaches
the podcasting course at Augustana.
Jennifer Lee: Yeah.
It's really interesting that we're
seeing more podcast courses pop up
around- America and Canada, and the
fact that this particular course is
super popular, he goes in to talk
about the fact that it's always full.
There's never an empty seat, and
so I'm really excited to chat
with him and see what makes it so
irresistible to take his course.
So let's get into it.
Neil McPhedran: Let's get into it.
David, so great to have you
here on Continuing Studies.
Thanks for joining us.
David Schwartz: Thank you
so much for having me.
It's an honor to talk with you.
Neil McPhedran: Okay, so you actually
started your podcasting career in grad
school with New Books in Journalism,
which is part of the New Books Network.
Maybe for anyone who hasn't come across
that yet, what is the New Books Network,
and how does a show like that work?
We've been meaning to get Caleb
from New Books on, so maybe just
give us a little bit of an insight.
David Schwartz: Sure.
So the way it works is an academic writes
a book, and then maybe four people read
it, and then you wonder why you just
spent the last three years doing that.
So what the New Books Network does is
it provides a place for academics to
talk about their work to people who care
about the work, to disseminate it in a
way that makes the work feel like it's
actually getting through to someone.
It's more than just sales.
It's more about having
your ideas be understood.
So I was just, was on the campus of
the University of Iowa, and somebody
who I don't think is there anymore
mentioned to me that the journalism
side of it needed someone to do it.
And I said, "Oh, I would, I would
love to. I'd like to do that."
I had never podcasted before.
I was a first-year grad student, so it was
an opportunity to do something kinda neat.
It was free books as well.
and so I did it, and it was wonderful.
I forget how long I did it,
maybe six months to a year.
And just to be able to, to network and,
and meet people who took so many years
and so much of their expertise to put
it into these, these works, and then to
know that people were then listening to
it and learning, it was, was wonderful.
It was amazing
Neil McPhedran: Great.
So then now you've come
back to podcasting.
So you started as a podcaster,
and then some years later,
'cause that was a while ago.
You're, like, an OG almost in podcasting.
So you've come back to podcasting,
is what we really wanna get
into today, teaching it.
So, what did you see originally
that sort of told you this needed
to be a course, podcasting needed
to be a course to be taught?
David Schwartz: Sure.
It actually started
outside of the department.
It was just looking around and realizing
just how, how much it had spread,
how much podcasting was everywhere.
And for all the, the hand-wringing
and nervousness about the decline
of terrestrial radio, podcasting
was just going up and up and up.
It's not that people wanted to- were
turning away from audio content,
it was just turning to a different
way of consuming audio content.
And one thing that we're doing, that
we always think about in our department
here at Augustana College is, you
know, where, what do our students
need to learn to be relevant in
the job market five years from now?
And so we identified
podcasting as that place.
I listen to it, other members of
our department listen to it, to
them, and it was just everywhere.
And so common sense said, "How do
we get this into the curriculum?"
And being a part of a small liberal
arts college, we're not even small,
but being part of a liberal arts
college, we are, we're nimble.
You know, if there's something
that we need to add, we have to put
the work in for a course request,
and it has to be approved, but
it doesn't take years, right?
And so as long as you've
provided the reasoning, it likely
will be approved, and it was.
And so, from there, it, we just, you
know, had to check on things like
equipment, of course, and made sure it
was, you know, there were enough students
who would be interested, and they were.
And so far, as, for the few years
now that the course has been being
taught, it has never had an empty seat.
So there was,
Neil McPhedran: Good
… David Schwartz: definitely a need for it.
Jennifer Lee: Bringing information
to the masses is something
that is never, ever gonna die.
And this is something that I always get in
arguments with people because people are
like, "Oh, radio is dead." Yes, the actual
format, like, going on a terrestrial tower
probably isn't gonna last much longer.
But what we're doing, broadcasting,
sharing information, sharing ideas,
is never gonna go away, either that be
video, either that be audio podcasts.
And so, the fact that you built a course
and people are coming in and sitting in
it and doing it and there's not an empty
seat, it just proves my point that people
still wanna do, something like radio,
it's just not called radio anymore.
David Schwartz: Right.
They just wanna, they wanna
talk, they wanna share what they
know, they wanna have a hobby.
Maybe they wanna make a
profession out of it, right?
And whenever someone says to me, just
like you, Jen, someone says to me, "Oh,
journalism is dead," or, "Audio is dead,"
I say, "No, think of it this way." It's
like saying like that when cars came
along and the horse and buggy became
obsolete, that transportation died.
No, it just evolved, and it continues to
evolve, and media continue to evolve and,
and audio especially continues to evolve.
One of my things I find really interesting
is that, and hopefully I'm not gonna
be boring anybody with this, but that,
you know, if we know from studies that
if somebody is watching video and the
video is kind of bad but the audio is
good, they will continue to listen.
They'll continue to try to watch.
But if it's the audio is … I'm
sorry, if the video is perfect, but the
audio is bad, they're, they're done.
They're logged off.
Yeah.
So there's something about needing and
wanting to hear that will be eternal.
Jennifer Lee: Well, we're humans,
we're storytellers, and like I
tell people, I said, "The act
of storytelling has never died."
It's no different than back in the
caveman days where we tell each other
stories to pass the time, and they
would evolve throughout the years.
David Schwartz: Yeah.
Jennifer Lee: And so that's the one
thing, is people are never, ever
going to stop sharing information.
The vessel will change,
like it is right now.
David Schwartz: Yep, absolutely.
In fact, the name of the full name
of the course that we teach here is
Podcasting and Audio Storytelling.
Neil McPhedran: Oh, Good.
Jennifer Lee: Love it.
These are my people, Neil.
Love it, as we know.
Neil McPhedran: There you go.
Well, that's a good, that's
a good segue then, David.
Maybe just tell us, tell us a little
bit of the course you've built.
Like, what is it?
Who takes it?
What does a student
actually do over the term?
David Schwartz: Sure.
And so the we, the way we built it is
we want students to not just know how
to press the buttons and do the editing
and write a script, but also understand,
like, the why behind the why, the, the
sort of the theory of it as well and,
and how to put a story together in a
way that resonates and people remember.
And so that was how we formed
the foundation of this course.
So, we don't spend a whole lot of
time on history, because the, I
mean, the students, they wanna get
to the actual technical part of it.
But for about the first week or two
weeks, they'll be understanding the
tradition of audio storytelling.
Jen, just like you said, we're,
you know, going back, you know,
pre-writing even, about how stories
were passed down through word of mouth
and, you know, has, has spread, you
know, of course, over the millennia.
And it's offered to anybody
who wants to take it.
It is, it is in the journalism department
here, but it's part of our gen ed
curriculum at Augustana, which means
anybody can take it who wants to take it.
And most of the majors in there are
either, journalism or communication
studies, but we've had people from
biology and communication sciences and
audiology and disorders and theater.
In fact, part of our film department,
it act- this actually counts as an
elective for film because they can,
produce scripts, and they can decide
how they want it to put together.
So there's a set curriculum for the types
of pods they'll be putting together.
But in terms of the content,
they have full reign over how
they wanna do it themselves.
So somebody from film might
write their own script.
Somebody from journalism
might try to do news.
Somebody from another area might
want to try to do a roundtable.
And whatever they want to learn, they
could have that own input as long as
they are following sort of a general
framework or general trajectory of
what we want them to do, and I think
that's part of the attractiveness of it.
When a student has control over their own
education, it really has worked for us,
letting students decide for themselves,
what kind of format do I want to be?
Jennifer Lee: But regardless of what
you're going into, science, theater,
any of them that you listed, you
need communication skills regardless,
and we're seeing that more and more.
It doesn't matter if you're in
these jobs like being a scientist or
anything like that, or an accountant,
that we wouldn't typically think
that you'd be doing YouTube videos
or having presentation skills.
But you do nowadays more and more
because you're creating your brand,
and if you can't communicate your
skillset, you're, you're gonna be
far, far, far behind everybody else.
And it was really interesting because
years ago, Neil and I talked to someone
from Stanford about the storytelling
project, and they had a course where she
said it's students from all different
types of backgrounds and education, and
she said without her even saying anything
at the end, they would complete a podcast.
They would go out and put their podcast
as part of their job application.
Even if a podcast is nothing that
they're gonna do with that particular
job, and that's what got them in
the door and got them the job.
David Schwartz: Yeah.
People just wanna know.
Employers just wanna know.
Even if you're an entrepreneur,
it needs to be known that you know
how to communicate with people.
There's just so much of it, and whether
you are, you know, in journalism
or theater or film, and your job
is creating content, sometimes
original content that you want it
to be seen, like even STEM, right?
Even the sciences-
Neil McPhedran: Yep
…
David Schwartz: you want people
to understand what your work is.
One, because it's fulfilling, and it's
sad when nobody knows, but also because
you need to- you wanna get grants, right?
And if they don't understand these
polysyllabic words that, that maybe
mean something tied to geology
or radiology but nobody knows,
that's, that's a, that's a loss.
And so, when you know how to take
something really complex and make it
so that most people can understand
it, that just really, really increases
opportunities for everyone involved
Neil McPhedran: I like that.
You mentioned this is the fourth academic
year you're running the podcast course?
David Schwartz: It's the fourth academic
year, and it's not run every year.
It's an elective, so it's an every
other year type thing, but yeah,
I think four years ago or five
years ago we created the course.
Neil McPhedran: Great.
So how has the course evolved, then, over
the years from the first time you did
it versus now you're going into the, the
third or fourth time you've been doing it?
I, I'm, I'm sure there's been some
evolution and some twists and turns.
David Schwartz: It has, and it, it's
been less about the content and sort
of more structural and what's, what
the expectations are of the students.
at the very beginning it was too
much history- Ah … and they
were getting bored, and they were
worried, "What, what is this class?
What did I just sign up for?" So as
we moved into the next incarnation
of it, it became, "Let's let them do
something fun the first week," and
then kind of weave the history of audio
storytelling into that as well so they
understand anything from, say, War of
the Worlds, right, you know, pre-World
War II, to, you know, Socrates, you
know, talking about word of mouth.
But they have to be able to be hands-on.
So that's one thing that's changed,
you know, pretty quick realized,
"Let's not lose them right away."
Neil McPhedran: Right.
David Schwartz: The other thing
is that we did less collaboration.
So one of the things we really wanted them
to do was to learn how to work as a group.
One person's a producer, one's an editor,
one is on air, they're all working on
the script, they're all editing together.
That became a little bit tough because I
mean, you guys probably remember, right?
You know, it, when there's a
project in school, one person
does 90% of the work, and then-
Neil McPhedran: Yep
… David Schwartz: the other two or three
get the grade along with it, and there's
some resentment that was bubbling over.
So, we do still have a
collaborative element, but now
there's a lot more reliance on
themselves just to get the skills.
But, but otherwise, that, that's more
of, like, a fairness type of thing.
I wish it wasn't true.
I wish, you know, they were
better at playing together.
But that's okay.
That's kind of just the way it is
in, in the academic world, whether
it's high school or college, really.
Jennifer Lee: But I feel like you're
preparing them for the real world, because
unfortunately, when you do go to work
and you do collaborative stuff at work,
you're not always all gonna get along,
and one person is usually doing more work.
So, I feel like you're,
setting some real expectations.
.
David Schwartz: Yeah.
I mean, and we make them sign a contract
at the beginning of it saying, "Okay,
map out who's gonna do what part. And
then at the end sign it so that we,
you've acknowledged that this is your
role and this is how we'll handle it if
things go wrong. And we don't just run
to the professor, but instead we try
to work it out and what, and whatnot."
Yeah, I mean, we hear from employers,
you know, what, we ask them, "What
do you want out of a, say, a, an
entry level employee?" and it's the
first three items are always good
writing skills, good communication
skills, and an ability to collaborate.
And so, we've gotta really walk that
fine line between forcing them to
learn how to collaborate, but at the
same time, not frustrating them to
the point that they feel like they are
doing somebody else's work for them.
'Cause that just makes them
think, "No, not fair," right?
You know, like, like a kid might
say, "It's not fair." So, we try
to, we try to appreciate that.
Jennifer Lee: When you finish with
them and they go on out of your course,
like you said, you, they learn a lot of
valuable skills like working in a group.
What other types of things do they walk
away with besides creating a podcast?
Because some of them might
never do it in, in life.
David Schwartz: Yeah, th-
that's such a great question.
It… One of the things they learn how
to do is how to have actual conversations
with people, and how to listen.
Jennifer Lee: Oh.
David Schwartz: Right?
And not just wait till somebody else
stops talking so that you can then talk.
Because otherwise the
interview's a, a joke, right?
And… 'cause one of the things
they do need to do is they all
need to do at least one interview.
And they write out their questions,
and sort of the foundation of that
is have your questions there in case
something starts to slow down and
you need to turn to something else.
But don't just read down the list.
Like, actually listen, and
be ready to deviate, and to
go on this crazy, fun detour.
And if you're excited, then the
listeners are going to be excited.
And if you're bored,
they're gonna be bored.
So, if you hear some of them
say something really cool, cool.
Like, take your questions and wad 'em up
and throw 'em away, and just start going
down this whole other different direction.
That's fine.
And, you know, that's hard, you know?
It's, so they're students and they're
all learning, but when we go back
and we critique each other's work and
we listen to it, you can always hear
the students who are too nervous to
deviate or don't know how to deviate
or really aren't listening, they're
just trying to check all the boxes.
And so somebody will say, they'll be
interviewing someone, this person goes,
"Yes, and that was, when I was abducted
by aliens." And then the student will
say, "And how old are you?" Like, what?
No, stop.
You know, it's like s- somebody just
said something really interesting
and you were trying to get
everything answered on your list.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah.
David Schwartz: And so they
learn how to be giving, like,
giving people in conversation.
And they learn that when somebody feels
heard, they're more willing to open up.
And I think we've all had this experience
of when we're talking to somebody, we've
had a bad day, we're complaining, we're
just downloading our emotions, and you
realize they're not listening to you.
Right?
That is, like, the worst feeling ever.
And so they learn how not to do that, and
they also come to understand the reactions
they get from their guests when they guest
or perceive that they're being listened
to as well, and they think, "Oh, I'm
being a good listener, and now I'm getting
better content and I'm learning more, and
this person is feeling less vulnerable
and more comfortable talking with me."
Jennifer Lee: Do you get them to
pick up the phone to get guests?
David Schwartz: I actually try
to make them do it in person.
Jennifer Lee: Oh, that's even harder.
Yeah.
Oh, ow.
You're mean.
No, I'm joking I, I, I only ask that
question because you're saying all these
skillsets, and I know one of the skills
that are lacking, and this goes for a
lot of jobs, and I have friends that
work in PR in bigger organizations,
and they said the young person, even in
crisis PR, will not pick up the phone.
And they're like, "I need to talk to
you." And they're like, they've had
these answers, "Please don't call me.
I don't like phone calls."
David Schwartz: I know.
It, there's an, there's an anxiety there
of, of, you know, I don't know what it is.
I, I can't relate.
I understand they feel that way, but I
can't relate to their feeling that way.
But no, they've gotta do it.
And, and so, you know, there's
2,500 students on our campus, and
there's a couple hundred faculty
and a lot of staff members.
There are lots of people to talk to.
Plus just the audio recording will
mostly be better if they're in person
and they learn how to mic people up.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah.
Jennifer Lee: Mm.
David Schwartz: That sort of thing.
So that's why, talking to
somebody over Zoom, it usually
has one of two things tied to it.
One is that they were too scared to talk
to someone, so they talk to a friend or
a relative back home And then from there
they also have to do a different type
of editing because oftentimes the person
they're interviewing is, is, you know,
sounds like they're in a wind tunnel half
the time, and then that just increases the
degree of difficulty by a lot just to get
it to a point where the rest of the class
can stand to listen to it because it's
just not irritating anymore, you know?
Neil McPhedran: That's great.
It's amazing actually the skills that
come out of a course like this just beyond
the actual practicality of podcasting.
Like, like Jenn, to your
point, like, you have to, like,
actually reach out to someone.
You have to, like
David Schwartz: Yeah
…
Neil McPhedran: engage with someone.
Jennifer Lee: It's every day skills.
Neil McPhedran: David, you're,
you're, you're, yeah, you were
just talking about listening.
Like, that's a huge one.
That's one that I've learned,
you know, on this podcast.
I'm like that person you were describing
that I've got my list of questions.
I've got 'em here in front of me just
off to my left on my screen, and I I
try to follow them, and I'm … And
Jenn's taught me to listen more.
We're 80 episodes in, so I've gotten a
lot better at listening and being a little
bit more pliable then of how I might,
you know, I've got four more questions
here, like how I'm gonna do that.
Mm. And kind of rolling with it.
Jenn just throws curve balls
every time, so I've gotten better-
Jennifer Lee: I drive him nuts
… Neil McPhedran: at that.
And it's a skill, I think, that
helps me beyond podcasting.
David Schwartz: Yeah.
You know, and there's something to
be said too 'cause there's certain
things you need to get answered, right?
So yes, the detours are okay, but
you also have to sort of have this
through line, and that does that.
But at the same time, you know, like,
the throwing of the curve ball gets
some of the best answers sometimes.
And I, I have this other podcast now that
I just do on my own, not tied to academia
or anything, and` a lot of times in, in
the area, the discipline where I do it,
which is hobbying and sports cards and
that sort of thing, people are really
nervous to be interviewed, so they get
the full, all the questions up front.
And I don't do that.
I'll, I will give them the topics so that
they feel somewhat comfortable, and then
we'll just kind of see where it goes.
And sometimes at the end they'll say, "Oh,
you know, this turned out pretty good.
I was really scared 'cause you didn't
tell me the questions." Well, That's
because I didn't want you to be rereading
from, you know, a pre-prepared answer.
That's just what the audience needs.
Jennifer Lee: Neil, Neil knows that I
don't give people any, any questions,
pre-questions or anything, because
again, they need to answer them honestly.
But it's just so funny, because
as you were talking about that, I
looked at our questions, and our
questions, our next question was
to ask you about your own podcast.
Oh, But, it's funny because this is
something that I tell Neil all the time
and stuff, when you ask the question in a
unique way, like Neil did, I'm so proud.
You, you got it up.
You, you basically volleyed it for
him, and he took it, and he answered
our question without even knowing it.
So, like, a lot of the times, too,
you can have unique ways in, and
the person will naturally answer
the questions on your paper.
But you have… It's a skill to push
them around the paper to, to do it.
And that's why I was like, I wish
people could see on our paper reel,
because I was like, "I'm so proud.
Neil, like, set that up so perfectly."
And David took it and ran with it.
David Schwartz: My baby's all grown up.
Yeah.
Jennifer Lee: Yeah.
There you go.
80 episodes, you know.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah, there you go.
Good stuff.
I love that you've started, as
you just were saying, you've
started your own podcast.
you found by forcing yourself to be,
to go back to being a podcaster as
well, there's some positive knock-ons
or some things that have kind of
crept into your coursework as well?
David Schwartz: Oh, sure.
That's the reason I, I started the
other podcast, is because I wanted
to be able to, you know, understand
what I was teaching and not just be
creating this course that we knew
needed to be there just to, you
know, because it should be there.
But I had to really understand it.
You know, students pay too much for, for
college these days, and they at least
deserve to have a, a faculty member
who understands the medium, right?
And so yeah, I started my own podcast.
Again, it was, I guess b- basically
baseball cards and, and a hobby, and
just learned editing and sound and,
and some video and just different
types of software and everything else.
And I was really glad that I did,
and I got about 200 episodes in.
In fact, 200 on the dot.
And once I hit 200 I, I paused it,
and then I, I started to retool
it now, and it's been wonderful.
You know, you have guests on, and you
learn things like booking, you know,
which, which you really don't think of.
You know, you think about making
sure it sounds right, but oh yeah,
you actually have to go out and
line up guests, and you have to make
them feel comfortable and whatnot.
And then you have to market it,
which, which is one thing I'm, I'm
not the best at, because I hate
telling people to like and subscribe.
And it's like, "Oh God, everyone
says like- … and subscribe," right?
But you need to do it.
So yeah, anything from just the
planning and, and the scripting and the
outlining and booking, to editing, to,
to marketing it, it has to all be there.
And that's one reason that
I started my, my show.
Neil McPhedran: That's great.
I mean, this is why I forced
myself to find Jen to start our
podcast three-plus years ago.
And it's been a great, it's, it's
been a really good journey, so.
You had mentioned that capacity has always
been full, which is, which is excellent.
You know, shows the demand.
But I would imagine equipment
would be one of the constraining
factors, so you've got a wait list.
You can only let so many people in
on the wait list because there's,
from an equipment perspective.
Is there anything you could shed
some light on there for anyone
who's looking to start a course?
David Schwartz: So there's two main
reasons why we keep the enrollment at
a somewhat manageable level, and one of
those is because if you get too many,
you just don't have the time to grade,
right, and really assess all their-
Neil McPhedran: Yeah
David Schwartz: …work.
And then the other reason is
because equipment is expensive.
Some of the larger state schools,
they have these endowments and these
mega donors, and, and we don't.
The campus treats us very well, the
administration treats us very well, but
the funding is what it is, and so we
need to stretch the dollar how we can.
For example, you know, a while back, well,
probably four or five years ago now, we,
in our broadcasting course, in our video
course, we needed to get some new cameras.
But the cameras that we really wanted were
you know, between $20 and $40,000 apiece,
which is just completely untenable.
So, I had a former student who,
is a producer now and, and,
he's been really successful.
So, we consulted with him and said,
"What do you think?" He says, "Well,
I was just in DC talking to our, you
know, our local rep, and I brought with
me my phone, a tripod, and a mic." And
then he called it simple tech, which
at the time I had not heard that term.
And so, that's what we try to do.
So we will now just,
we'll use their phones.
They have their own phones.
They know coming in that that
phone will need to be used.
But then we'll provide, you
know, the lav mics, or provide
something like a Yeti mic as well.
Because those can be
replaced a lot easier.
We can buy those in bulk a lot easier.
And then for editing, we will
use Audacity, which is wonderful.
It's just a wonderful editing tool.
I don't like to say it's free, even though
there is no charge, because it's, you
know, it's open source, and there's people
who work really hard on it over the years.
So I will make an annual donation to them
'cause they, they, they rely on that.
But that keeps the cost down
for the students as well.
So essentially, as long as they have their
phones, we will provide the mics and teach
them how to use the editing software.
But it, it works great for the most part.
Every now and then a mic goes
bad, but any mic can go bad.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah.
David Schwartz: So, and from there
they also will learn how to… you
know, say if it's a lav mic, they'll
learn when to place it, keep it below
the lapel, watch out for hair, look
out for hoods, that sort of thing.
So, in addition to, you know,
having the simple tech, which,
you know, we can replace a mic for
$40 as opposed to $400 or $4,000.
It also accounts for students will
break things, students will lose things.
On the very, very, very rare
occasion, a student will just ghost
us then, and then keep it, right?
It doesn't doom the, it
doesn't doom the department.
And so-
Neil McPhedran: Yeah
… David Schwartz: toward the end
of each academic year, we'll take
inventory and figure out what
still works and what doesn't.
And most of the time 90% of it does.
But for that, that which doesn't,
it allows us to then replenish
over the summer within our budget.
Neil McPhedran: Right.
Well, that's good.
I like that.
Jennifer Lee: I love it.
Neil McPhedran: It's good.
Good.
Jennifer Lee: Placing them proper, yeah.
Neil McPhedran: That's a good,
that's a good approach versus trying
to create studios and, which I
think can be good, but also that's,
that's pretty limiting as well, too.
David Schwartz: Speaking of which,
we do have… there's a room down
the hall, which we, we rented
last year as the podcast center.
It was a room within the campus radio
station that was not really being used.
And so, but just like you would
imagine, we're having trouble
getting the funding to finish it.
Like, we gotta get the
sound right in there.
Right now there's a, there's a,
like, an old-fashioned key to get in
there, but that prevents anybody else
from campus from using it, right?
And so we're just trying to, you know,
get the money to have them swap out the
old-fashioned lock and key for, you know,
the, just our, our, our swipes, right?
So that's just a pain, but I mean,
that's gonna be a two to three-year
process instead of, you know, I can
jump on Amazon now and say, "You know
what? Just give me a lav mic." and
then it's here in a day and a half.
And so, I would love to have the studio.
We will have it at some point.
I've, I think we'll have
it by '27, so next year.
But yeah, it's just been a
long process when you have to
go through all the red tape.
Jennifer Lee: Well, David, when it's
free, I'd love to come, check it out,
because I love studios, as, Neil knows.
And I'm just happy that regardless what
type of microphone you have the kids on,
any mic is better than no mic at all.
And those are Jenn's
words of wisdom for today.
Thank you so much, David, for coming on.
Neil and I-
Neil McPhedran: Yeah
… Jennifer Lee: really appreciate it.
Neil McPhedran: Of course.
Yeah, it's been great.
Thank you so much for sharing
everything with us today.
David Schwartz: Thanks for having me.
This has been amazing, and
thanks for all you do as well.
Neil McPhedran: Great.
Jennifer Lee: Thank you.
Neil McPhedran: Well,
Jenn, I enjoyed that.
We really kind of got into some
of the nitty-gritty of podcasting
there when we haven't done that
in a few episodes where we-
Jennifer Lee: I was nerding out.
Neil McPhedran: Yeah, that's right.
But I think it's good.
It just, you know, I said it when we
were chatting, but it's amazing beyond
just the technical and how-to aspect
of a podcast, but what else the sort of
the practice of podcasting can, can help
one's future career or communication
skills or just, you know, to your
point you had made about setting up
interviews and, and outreach to, you
know, to get, to get people on and just
sort of that, that practice of forcing
yourself to ask people to be a guest.
Jennifer Lee: Yeah.
I, I love the fact that all his
students have many real-life skills,
and so much real-life skills, as
we discussed, come from podcasting.
So who woulda thought?
It's no different when back in the day
people were like, "Why are you taking
theater at school?" Same thing, "Why
are you taking podcasting?" But there
are so many valuable skills in it.
So thank you so much for tuning in
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