Continuing Studies: for Higher Ed Podcasters

[00:00:00] Sarah Hillel: What I found really interesting in this particular new research, which is called the Infinite Dial 2024 from Edison Research, is that in the eighteen to thirty-four year age group, reach of podcasts is now almost equal to television. And this has never been achieved before.
[00:00:25] Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing Studies. A podcast for higher education podcasters to learn and get inspired. I'm Neil McPhedran.
[00:00:32] Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee. We want you to know you're not alone. In fact, there are many of you higher ed podcasters out there and we can all learn from each other.
[00:00:40] Neil McPhedran: That's right. Before we jump into this episode, we just want to please remind you to please follow our continuing studies page on LinkedIn.
[00:00:50] I'm excited for this episode today. We're speaking with Sarah Hillel from Alumni Podcasts. And Sarah actually does something similar to us.
[00:01:00] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, she does. And it's so neat to talk to somebody that does what we do because every institution is different and everyone uses their podcasts in a different way. We know that from our different clients that we have in the post-secondary education space. But I also think it's neat that she touches upon high schools. High schools is not something that I thought of for podcasts. There's a lot of gold in here. We also talk about my favorite subject, radio, but a different thing about it, pirate radio. So you have to hold on to see what that's about.
[00:01:32] Neil McPhedran: And I think this is great chatting with Sarah today because her background actually is through alumni relations, which is not my background, not your backgrounds. It's interesting how she's come to podcasting and what she says combining her love of audio and storytelling. So yeah, let's just get into it.
[00:01:51] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I'm excited. She's a very cool lady.
[00:01:54] Neil McPhedran: Okay. Welcome, Sarah. Thanks for joining us today on Continuing Studies Podcast.
[00:01:58] Sarah Hillel: Absolute pleasure to be here. Thank you so much for inviting me.
[00:02:01] Neil McPhedran: Sarah, can you share with us a little bit about your background in alumni relations and how you got into the world of alumni podcasting?
[00:02:11] Sarah Hillel: Yeah. For about five years, some years ago, I worked for a SAS tech company who build alumni community platforms. And I had the best job. I was the, um, I was the event director for the company, which meant that I was organizing and producing the flagship alumni relations conferences for thousands of participants all over the world.
[00:02:35] So this was where I kind of broke my teeth. This is where I learned really about alumni engagement and advancement and development. I was producing events in the University of Oxford several times, the British Museum, and in the U.S. at various locations. UCLA, Texas Christian University, Harvard, Columbia.
[00:02:56] And what that gave me kind of a, um, where I kind of learned about alumni relations and alumni engagement was having the ability to speak to the speakers, to all the participants who were attending these huge events. And from various parts of the world and from different sizes of institutions. Big universities, Harvard and Johns Hopkins, smaller K 12 schools, non-profits.
[00:03:23] And what we saw, what I learned there was that the challenges, the very unique challenges that these different institutions faced in alumni engagement and alumni strategy, and the best practices that they were developing. And there were, you know, very key components that kind of were very similar across all these institutions.
[00:03:43] And so fast forward a few years, and myself and my business partners realized that there is a huge potential for universities and schools to boost their alumni engagement through authentic voice, through storytelling, through engaging their communities with the authentic voices of their alumni members and a community.
[00:04:07] And this really seemed like a brilliant place to start a business, to start an organization that will assist schools and universities and non-profits to engage their communities, to use the authentic voices of their community members, to talk about their schools. And their mission and their values and their educational quality. Because there's really no, no people better placed to speak about a particular higher ed institution or a school than the, than those who have walked the walk, that have walked the corridors of the school. Not only in terms of the academic, rigour, say, but also the, uh, you know, the stuff on the sidelines, not just the quality of the education, but what else an academic institution brings to play in building the character and shaping the, these individuals that have been to these schools. And so that in a nutshell is how we were birthed. Um, birthed in storytelling, I think is how I'd like to coin it.
[00:05:10] Jennifer-Lee: Storytelling is such a key thing. I know we've talked to Laura from Stanford about the Stanford Storytelling Project. But it's something that is a big deal that we've done all our lives, we've done it throughout history, and now we're putting it to a medium where it's more accessible for everyone.
[00:05:26] And I think about when I was in university, I actually didn't really know about a lot of the grads. Yeah, they would bring them in once a while, they would do like a talk. But other than that, I didn't really know what my degree was getting me or the other people that have used it. But now with podcasting, you can really uncover a lot more people's stories.
[00:05:46] Sarah Hillel: That's so true. You're uncovering the journeys of the alumni and that's very intergenerational. I think we, we're working with schools that have like really rich histories. Um, I can give so many examples, but one that, that comes to mind right now is working with the King Alfred School in North London, which has a one hundred and twenty-five year history.
[00:06:06] Obviously we can't interview some of the alumni from one hundred and twenty-five years ago.
[00:06:08] Jennifer-Lee: That would be cool. AI.
[00:06:10] Sarah Hillel: That would be cool. But what, uh, AI generated perhaps. King Alfred have over the years, they've been recording, you know, Zoom calls and telephone conversations and, uh, some in situ video at the school. And they've got this huge archive of material that's just sitting there, you know, and what are they going to do with it?
[00:06:30] So we've been tasked to work with them. We're taking all this beautiful stories and archive and we're condensing this into a twenty-five series podcast, taking hundreds of hours of conversation and splicing it together. I'm making this great podcast series and the stories are epic. Episode three, we're just working on now, you know, he's his grandparents escaped from Nazi Germany.
[00:06:55] And, you know, that their grandfather owned a shipping company in Hamburg and he wanted to, he knew what was coming and he wanted to get the family out, but he didn't want to scare them to death. So he told them that we're going to spend Christmas in the UK and quietly. And then in the kind of like subdititious clandestine fashion he had sold all the furniture, shipped it on one of his ships to the UK. And enrolled his daughter in King Alfred's school and they never went back to Germany. So that's just one of many, many, many epic stories that we listen to day in and day out. Um, and it's quite remarkable.
[00:07:35] Neil McPhedran: I love that. I think we default to more immediate stories about, you know, people that have been successful, alumni that have been successful in the last ten, fifteen, twenty years or whatnot.
[00:07:49] I think it's really interesting sort of that approach to reach way further back into history and just sort of like for the present-day class to think about in these same hallways that, you know, like the former students that pass through those same hallways and like. And what a great way to also just sort of more deeply connect with history as well, too. I think that sometimes it's hard for us to imagine that, but when you can sort of place a former fellow student in the same place that you're going to and hear those stories, there must be, there's more of a connection there, I would imagine, just even to the history around it.
[00:08:24] Sarah Hillel: Yeah. And you know, these experiences that shape individuals and in many of the podcasts, we speak about, you'd be surprised how much we speak about failure and maybe we shouldn't speak about it. Don't speak about failure enough that it's not a linear track to success. And many guests, many alumni on many of our series speak about all that, you know, falling on your face flat on the floor, um, and then getting up again. And they often relate their experiences to what was instilled in them during their school or university days and what shaped and molded them.
[00:09:01] And coming back to that, which I find, you know, really, really fascinating. And I think it's just so important to be able to document these stories and have them in your archives. And they're very evergreen, they're, they resonate not just today, but they'll resonate in a month's time. And in ten year’s time, these stories. And I think that really all schools should really give greater attention to recording the voices of their communities. Not that I'm trying to sell my company, but, uh, but we, you know, we see the value and we see the responses from the alumni and from the community. And, you know, it can be, you know, a podcast can also be used not just for alumni engagement, but many of the clients we work with are using a podcast as a recruitment tool. So a K 12 in Germany that we work with, uh, called the International School of Hamburg, uh, which was the first international school in Germany. Their podcast series is really trying to, that they want to, show what their school is about that they're very special modern teaching methodology, and that's to encourage prospective parents to enroll their children in their school.
[00:10:13] What's special about what they do and how they teach. So that's it, that's a different angle that we can bring on board. So it's not just anecdotal storytelling. It's, you know, what we do, what we are great at. And that can also extend, you know, there's different versions of podcasts working on professional development and continuing education.
[00:10:34] So schools were working with like Longwood University in the U.S., their grad program, the University of Bath. Uh, we have a new podcast with them called Management Meets, which interviews the very successful alumni who are now CEOs and founders and speaking about how they trained and what they're doing now. And this is very relevant for current students and alumni. So I mean, the sky's the limit really when it comes to audio and podcasts and higher ed.
[00:11:03] Jennifer-Lee: I love it. I think it's a tool that a lot of people misjudge sometimes because they see the celebrity podcasts, which are great, and it's great, full of entertainment, but the word podcast has kind of been muddied a little bit in that fact.
[00:11:17] Every time I talk to someone, everyone's like, oh, well, that's for business. No, it's not. It's like, no, no, there's so many different aspects that you can use, I like to say, audio for to, you know, create, like you were saying, recruitment. It's also another great thing people were saying in another university Neil and I interviewed was the fact that their students who had nothing to do with going on to being broadcasters or anything were creating these podcasts at a cost and they were using them themselves without the teacher saying as a resume to get a job and they were getting jobs based on their podcasts.
[00:11:50] So I tell people, it's part of your brand now. That's the thing is that, and a podcast doesn't need to be an hour. It doesn't need to be a full production. It can be five minutes, but it all comes down to what you say, Sarah, is you have to be a great storyteller. If you can't capture someone in five minutes of your story, then it's not going to work.
[00:12:12] Sarah Hillel: I agree. I mean, I think I have one of the best jobs in the world and me and my team, you know, at the end of the day or the end of the week in our weekly meetings, we, um, we have fun. We speak about who we've recorded in that week. You know, someone will say, come back, wow, we just, you know, we just came out the remote studio and we spoke to so and so and so and so and they were saying this and that. These are stories unearth. I mean, last, we've got a new production with, um, a great non-profit called the Waterkeeper Alliance, which launched for, uh, World Water Day a couple of weeks ago. And I was in the studio for that one. And the guest was an eighty-two year old gentleman called, uh, the Reverend Dr. uh, Gerald Durley. I think I've got his name correct, correctly. And he was active in the civil rights movement. He was a friend with Dr. Martin Luther King. He was in the march on Washington in the sixties. And he now is a voice for Waterkeeper Alliance because he draws those parallels between what they were fighting for in the civil rights movement in the sixties and the right to clean water as a human right. And he would never have imagined himself going on this journey from then to now. So, you know, it was absolute privilege to listen to this man speak and to see the impact that he's having on with the waterkeeper. So it's just, it's brilliant. It's like mind blowingly brilliant sometimes to hear these stories. Everyone's got a story.
[00:13:41] Neil McPhedran: The tagline for alumni podcast is the voice of your community. So I think that you've eloquently, um, put a wrapper around that in the last few minutes of telling us about, about, um, the, uh, institutions that, uh, that you work with and how you're really sort of modern day voices of that alumni community all the way back to, you know, pre-World War II or during World War II and further back, that's still the voice of the community.
[00:14:07] Sarah Hillel: Totally, totally.
[00:14:07] Jennifer-Lee: I was just going to say, because she's talking about stories and everyone has a story. I know that you have a really cool story that we haven't uncovered yet in your personal treasure trove. I like to bring this up because as we know, I have a radio background, but I heard that Sarah did something a little bit different.
[00:14:28] Neil McPhedran: It's a drinking game we play. How far into our, uh, our episode Jen and I get before she talks about her being a radio person?
[00:14:35] Jennifer-Lee: It's my glory days deal. Let me have it.
[00:14:38] Sarah Hillel: I love it. I love it.
[00:14:39] Jennifer-Lee: Sarah did something a little bit different, which I haven't done and I think it's cool, is pirate radio. Can you explain a little bit about what pirate radio is for people that don't know it's not pirates on a ship? But with like hooks and like swashbucklers, but it's only a little bit different.
[00:14:55] Sarah Hillel: Well, it's funny because I have some pirate stories as well. When I was a student back in the UK, I was at, uh, at Leeds. So this was the era of kind of like acid house era where music was coming in from Detroit, from the States. Uh, this new style of music, house music with repetitive beats, one hundred and twenty beats per minute. I was involved in a pirate radio station working in, uh, in the UK, in Leeds. And, you know, I've always had a love of radio, but that wasn't, that was a completely legal radio station. We had to, um, move the decks because at that time it was vinyl, you know, before, way before the age of digital.
[00:15:37] And move the decks from like these high-rised, I don't know if you know the north of England, but you've got all these kind of high rise apartment buildings. And there were some that were, you know, abandoned or, you know, not used. And they would be moved around every day from place to place in order to broadcast without the old bill coming and arresting us.
[00:15:59] So, um, and it was hugely successful. And these stations were really, and now there's films about it. There's websites about it. It was, um, you know, one of those coming of age, I think, times that I was very lucky to be to be a part of, uh, in those years. The pirates also, I've seen real pirates for ten years.
[00:16:20] After that, I operated a marine research boat in the Red Sea and Indian Ocean. And yeah, I'm a scuba instructor and we conducted research. Mainly in the Southern Red Sea and Sudan and Yemen and, uh, yeah, and in Yemen we came across pirates now and again. Shot at us a few times with bullets ricocheting off the superstructure of the vessel. There's so many stories there, I could speak about that literally for hours.
[00:16:47] Jennifer-Lee: You've got so many great stories.
[00:16:49] Neil McPhedran: Yeah, you're might be, you're definitely our first guest that's been shot at, I think, or at least talked about being shot at by pirates. That's for sure. Oh, that's amazing. So the pirate radio, so you basically would broadcast into the same, it was AM. I'm imagining.
[00:17:07] Sarah Hillel: It was FM.
[00:17:10] Neil McPhedran: So you would, the same sort of spot in the spectrum, you would be broadcasting, but you would physically move around your setup, so.
[00:17:17] Sarah Hillel: Yes.
[00:17:18] Neil McPhedran: Isn't it funny, I mean, now with RSS, you don't have to do that, because you can just broadcast your RSS feed and you don't need to worry about moving around, I guess, kind of a thing, or being a pirate, kind of a thing. You can just sort of get it out there now how, um, that's the beauty of podcasting.
[00:17:33] Sarah Hillel: Those were, yeah, those were very, very, very, very fun times and I don't think anyone's going to turn around now and arrest us. You know, many years, many decades later.
[00:17:43] Jennifer-Lee: I don't want that to be our podcast. How we get people in trouble.
[00:17:48] Neil McPhedran: So there's been some, uh, recent, uh, research and there was a few things in there that you were thinking were really specific, positive takeaways or key takeaways for us in higher education podcasts. And maybe that you could share a couple of those things with us and, uh, and what are some of those insights?
[00:18:06] Sarah Hillel: Yeah, sure. So I, you know, in my business, I'm always kind of keeping my finger on the pulse with the research. And there's a lot of it into the popularity of podcasts, who's listening, where they're listening in from. Um, but what's interesting to me, I think is, is the, are the demographics. So what I found really interesting in this particular new research, which is called the Infinite Dial 2024 from Edison Research, is that in the eighteen to thirty-four year age group, reach of podcasts is now almost equal to television and this has never been achieved before.
[00:18:45] So what we're seeing is that I think this is very much post COVID. And, um, as we spent so much time looking at screens that all generations are looking to move away from that and they are consuming their content when they want and how they want, uh, via audio. I'm moving away from screen time.
[00:19:06] We spend so much time on screens. We work on them, you know, in our offices and our day to day. And I think this is really interesting for higher ed in particular, that we, that the Gen Z's and the Millennials are really consuming, as I say, all the majority of their content via podcasts. And I think this is really, really compelling and I think what really that means is podcasting is no longer like this kind of like a niche platform that lacks scale. It's something that every university should be looking at to incorporate into their media planning. Um, when they're looking to engage and build strategy, to boost the engagement with their alumni is you must be incorporating audio in some shape or form to boost that engagement. And that's what I found really compelling and interesting from this research.
[00:19:59] Neil McPhedran: Yeah, that's really good research. We'll include a link to that Edison, um, uh, report in our show notes. I totally agree. And I was actually struck, similarly, it's research that backs up, I think, what we're seeing as well of I've specifically been working with higher education podcasts for four years now, and I feel like I've really seen in the last year a sea change of the importance of the channel from being sort of a tertiary interesting thing that they should, that a comms department or whatnot should start to, you know, try or whatever, to now it being a core channel, um, up there with their email list. Um, like a lot of alumni organizations have a magazine, um, uh, you know, their YouTube channel, so on and so forth. But it's a core component that's as important now, uh, as that magazine or as that email list for that reach. And this research to your point, just brings that home with, with data to just sort of, you know, to say like, it's not just older, but it's that cohort that's coming up and into university and in university that's now reaching for and consuming, uh, audio data, uh, sorry, audio content, specifically podcasts.
[00:21:27] Sarah Hillel: No, none of these outreach strategies are dead, the newsletter and the emails and everything else. But first of all, a podcast is live and again, I keep saying this word authentic, but it is, because it's the voice of your community. But more than that, you can, what's great about a podcast is that you can, it's a wonderful medium to repurpose. We always say one podcast, half hour or an hour, repurpose a hundred times.
[00:21:55] You can take that podcast with your transcript and we help now with the wonders of AI, which I'm absolutely obsessed with. We take that transcript and that recording and we extract newsletters, blog posts, show notes, short summaries, long summaries, Q Quotations, all from that podcast, which then a university or a school can use in their social media outreach, they can use on their website, you know, you can do the spotlights that universities always do on their alumni from the podcast interview.
[00:22:30] So that's already kind of, you know, boxed and ready for you as well. So, you know, that ability to stretch a podcast in terms of content creation is, is wild, you know, you, especially for small teams, you know, we work sometimes with, you know, very small teams that were stretched, you know, to capacity with their everyday, everyday work, and we're saying, look, you know, you run a podcast and you're going to get all this content as well. You can use, very evergreen, you know, for months to come.
[00:22:58] Neil McPhedran: That's a really good point, Sarah. Yeah, I completely agree. That's a really good point. I think sometimes, myopically, we can just look at, okay, well, what's the podcast doing? And we're going to look at download stats. And are we seeing growth in that?
[00:23:10] But I think that's, that's the wrong, you know, we should keep our eye on analytics for sure. Uh, you know, we do pretty intensive analytics with all of our clients, but it's more than just growth. And I think you're right. It's about like, uh, how do you use the content to repurpose it in other mediums and other ways. And it is a treasure trove of content for other opportunities too.
[00:23:32] Jennifer-Lee: And the thing is like, I just like this and we're going to go back to radio for a second is the fact that I'm an important point. It's the fact that, like, I'm not really surprised about that stat about Gen Z because coming from traditional radio, they always said that, you know, video kills the radio star, radio is gonna die.
[00:23:50] The thing is, radio will never die because it's audio. And yes, traditional radio as we know it, probably going away, but audio lives on. And we all revert back to audio. It doesn't matter how much technology we get. It works its way in there. And like to Sarah's point. It's now at a point that we have these platforms that you can broadcast internationally because of technology.
[00:24:16] And then we can use more parts of that podcast and integrate it with a lot of our marketing tools. So the thing is, it's like, everyone's always like, oh, radio. And it's like, well, to be honest, podcasting, audio, is the same thing. It just with technology, we're able to reach a lot more people and utilize that content that we weren't able to do before.
[00:24:39] Sarah Hillel: Yeah, that's correct. I mean, I'm, I've been, I'm an audio, you know, fanatic and I think that's why I love doing what I do now. But of course the beauty of podcasts and also radio shows now. Is that you can, you know, you can stream them whenever you want. You don't have to be there in the room when it's, uh, you know, when it's live.
[00:24:56] And I think that's one of the beauties of it. And I, you know, there's so many other interesting statistics now that how, you know, how wildly popular podcasts for children are becoming.
[00:25:04] Jennifer-Lee: I've heard it's like huge. And I didn't think that would be something, because again, some have video elements, some don't, but I do think it's a better thing because a lot of the kids too, are having to create their imagination.
[00:25:17] Sarah Hillel: Exactly that. I'll share an article that I read quite recently about that is that when you listen to audio, you create the vision, that the story in your mind, you know, and the brain works, the neural networks work in a completely different way than if you're watching something on the screen. And yeah, massive potential for, uh, podcasts for children, and we're seeing also that trajectory, uh, you know, go wild.
[00:25:41] You know, I'm working on a great production right now with Aston University in the UK. The whole team we're loving is called After Aston I... So, After Aston I... worked with Kylie Minogue. After Aston I... moved my career to Norway, After Aston I... went on the BBC, um, became a BBC radio presenter. And these are having massive success, these stories of graduates.
[00:26:06] You know, went to Aston, what it instilled in them, um, their time, their studying, and now their journey from that point forward. And as I say, you know, we feel very lucky that we're able to, you know, have a front row seat or front row ear to these like, you know, great stories and I'll say again, a lot of them focus on, you know, an equal amount of failure, uh, an equal amount of success. And, uh, I think these kind of stories, they're gonna kind of transformational and very guiding for the people who are listening in.
[00:26:44] Neil McPhedran: Well, this is great. Thanks, Sarah. That's, this has been a, this has been a fantastic, uh, conversation. And, um, I think you're leaving the audience with an idea there with the After Aston I... think other alumni organizations out there can borrow that for their schools as well, too. That's a really clever, that's a really clever idea that, uh, your team has come up with.
[00:27:09] Sarah Hillel: Actually, they came up with it. It was their idea and we just facilitated it.
[00:27:13] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, I want to listen to them because I was like, hmm, After Aston I... became an award-winning cocktail entrepreneur. I was like, maybe that will be my second career in life. I don't know. I want to listen.
[00:27:24] Sarah Hillel: Yeah, that's Grace Ubawuchi. She was an Aston graduate who, wanted to figure out how to freeze alcohol because you can't freeze alcohol, uh, and to make cocktail sorbets and they succeeded in doing it. But they had huge problems doing it in the beginning with it defrosting and melting and transporting it because they deliver. Um, and they nailed it in the end.
[00:27:49] Jennifer-Lee: A lot of cocktail tasting. That's a good failure. You have to taste all the samples.
[00:27:53] Neil McPhedran: Yeah. Thanks again, Sarah. This was, this has been a really interesting conversation and I think it’s nice to sort of talk bigger picture sometimes, um, about alumni podcasts, the category, as well as alumni podcasts, your business, and the exciting things that you guys are doing. So thanks for joining us on Continuing Studies.
[00:28:12] Sarah Hillel: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure speaking to you both. And I think we covered, we covered a lot of bases here in this conversation.
[00:28:22] Jennifer-Lee: Well, it was awesome talking to Sarah. I've learned so much. So intrigued about pirate radio because I've seen movies about it. But I was like, hmm, I don't think pirate radio would fly today. Maybe it's still around. I don't know. But, uh, yeah, lots of cool things that we talked to Sarah about, but I really love, and I, I want to listen more to it, but the After Aston I... podcast, because I think she's hitting onto something that's super unique of talking to the people that have gone there.
[00:28:50] Neil McPhedran: I completely agree. I, and I also, and I hadn't thought about it before, but I love that other high school that, uh, that they're working with. That's one hundred and twenty-five years old and it's more storytelling than just interviews. I think we default to interviewing, but I love how, uh, Alumni Podcast is exploring different formats and that one format where they're reaching back far into history and pulling out those stories, um, and that's what, that's, you know, fabulous evergreen content, as Sarah was saying.
[00:29:25] So yeah, I think there's a number of things we can take away and some, definitely some ideas that we could, uh, quote unquote, borrow for, uh, the podcast that we work with, but, uh, you know, listening audience out there, um, you as well, I'm sure there's some good nuggets we can all take away.
[00:29:43] So we'll include links to Sarah's contact info in the show notes and as well as we mentioned and we spoke about that Edison research, uh, project, which came out, uh, while we were at, while I was at Podcast Movement.
[00:29:58] Jennifer-Lee: I know you were solo this time, but it's okay.
[00:30:00] Neil McPhedran: Yeah, I wasn't there with you because you're going to London. You're going to the big show.
[00:30:04] Jennifer-Lee: And I'm going to the big show solo. We'll get to a conference again together.
[00:30:09] Neil McPhedran: Yeah, we will. Okay, Jen. Well, I think that's a wrap. That was another great episode. Thanks for tuning in everyone.
[00:30:17] Jennifer-Lee: Thank you.
[00:30:23] Neil McPhedran: Thank you for tuning in to the Continuing Studies Podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform so you'll never miss an episode. And if you've found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts.
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[00:31:10] See you in the next episode.