Continuing Studies: Higher Ed Podcasting

Krissie Brighty Glover: Podcasting, I
like to call it the beauty and the beast

of podcasting, in that anybody can do it.

That's the beauty of it.

That's also the beast of it.

There is some terrible stuff out
there, and we're trying to keep you

in the beauty and not the beast.

So for us, it's about creating a scaffold.

it's about finding a way of creating
something together, It's different to

a journal article where it's insular.

It's a collaborative, it's a project team.

So I think that's something you should
bear in mind when you think about your

outputs is, what does a podcast bring
out in my team that I can celebrate?

Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing
Studies, a podcast for higher

education podcasters who want to
learn, connect, and get inspired.

I'm Neil McPhedran, founder
of HigherEdPods.com and

The Podium Podcast Company.

JenniferLee: And I'm Jennifer
Leigh, founder of JPod Creations.

If you're podcasting in
higher ed, you're not alone.

There's a fast-growing
community out there, and we're

here to help you tap into it.

Neil McPhedran: That's right.

We want to hear your ideas, so send us
subjects you think we should tackle,

corners of the higher education
podcasting space that we're not

getting into, people to interview.

We got our email in our show notes.

We'd love to hear from you.

So Jen, in this episode, we are
chatting with Krissie Brighty-Glover,

who is director of training at
Research Podcasts, which is in the UK.

Krissie's company is awesome.

They focus on producing podcasts for
universities and researchers, and her

team works directly with academics and
institutions to turn research into audio,

which is actually quite interesting,
often funded through public engagement

or research impact grants, and they
actually help academic podcasters

get those grants too, which is great.

And so through this work, she's
had this front row view into how

universities are adopting podcasting
as a medium for research communication.

JenniferLee: Yeah.

I'm really excited for you to
hear from her because she is super

great, a resource of knowledge.

You and I both got to meet her
in person too, so it was nice to

actually talk to someone face to face
that we interview on the podcast.

Neil McPhedran: This is actually part
two of a special three-part series

where we're doing a deeper dive
into exploring research podcasting.

So the first episode was
a couple of weeks ago.

Go back and listen to that one.

That was the one with Professor
Abigail Harrison-Moore from the

University of Leeds, and we went
deep into her participatory research,

which was really good, and Krissie
helped her bring that to life.

And then part three of this miniseries
is gonna be later in the summer, and

it's actually from a in-person recording
that I did with Abigail, Krissie, and

then Kerr Hunter, and he runs the Helix
Studio at the University of Leeds.

And I recorded that, unfortunately
without you, Jen, because you were

here in Vancouver, so it would've
been like 2:00 in the morning for you.

I recorded that in the actual Helix Studio
while I was there for the EPOD conference.

So that'll be part three.

Be sure to go back and listen
to that first one with Abigail.

But otherwise- Yeah … let's
get into this super interesting

conversation with Krissie.

Welcome Krissie.

It's great to have you here on
the Continuing Studies podcast.

Krissie Brighty Glover:
Yeah, thanks for inviting me.

It's really exciting to talk to other
people in a community of researchers

and podcasters that are in this field,
and to bring that community together.

So, thank you for having me along.

Neil McPhedran: Excellent.

So, Research Podcasts has been producing
academic podcasts for more than a decade.

You and your colleagues are, are
definitely OGs, and you work with

universities across the UK and Europe.

So, let's start off by telling
us a bit about Research Podcasts.

What does your company actually do
for universities and researchers?

Krissie Brighty Glover: So, we like
to consider ourselves early adopters.

That would be me and my
co-founder, Christine Garrington.

I've worked in university communications
for quite a long time, and then

realized that podcasting is something
that we're really passionate about

and really wanna jump feet first into.

So, just after COVID, we really launched
Research Podcasts, and our whole

remit is to help researchers create
podcasts, and it's part of the public

engagement and impact agenda here.

And w- to do that, we do
end-to-end production.

So, what that means is we will do the
ideology at the beginning, so where we

think about the purpose, why you're doing
the podcast, and then part of that we'll

look at the format, the tone, the content,
what you wanna bring to the table.

And then us as broadcasters will kind of
create a narrative for you, storytelling,

scripting to make your research
more engaging to a wider audience.

And then from there, we'll go on to
guest booking, recording, editing,

mastering, and then finally, distribution.

So, my area of expertise personally
is the distribution side, so dealing

at the podcast artwork, transcripts,
show notes, and adding a version

of academic rigor to that as well.

For us, everything we do is
purposeful and with intent.

So when we create transcripts, it's for
accessibility, but it's also so your

work is more referenceable, and it adds
that academic rigor to what you're doing.

And I'm blessed because I lead a
team of experts, and our real USB

is that everyone that I work with
gets the higher education context.

So they're either ex-comms people
or they've worked for the BBC

and are now academic journalists.

And the reason that's so important
for me is that I wanna understand

the context that you're operating in.

So here in the higher education
sector in the UK, things are

challenging at the moment.

So from a finance perspective, from
the sorts of things that people

are allowed to study, talk about,
there are challenges going on.

So if you employed a production company
that deal with commercial clients,

they're not as involved, they're not as
immersed in what you're trying to achieve.

Mm. So I think that's where we're slightly
different, and it also gives you a bit

of leeway as a researcher as well that
we understand where you're coming from.

So we start on the same page,
so when we move forward, we're

moving forward with purpose.

JenniferLee: Krissie, you were saying,
and same thing here in Canada right now,

it's very hard when it comes to funding.

Lots of things are being cut-
and it's a big challenge.

But I know that you guys are kinda
helping fund different academic projects.

Can you tell a little bit about that?

Krissie Brighty Glover: Yeah, of course.

So we don't personally
fund the academic projects.

We get two types of researcher
that will come to us.

The first type is somebody right
at the beginning of their idea in

their research, not just the podcast.

And what they wanna do is bring the
podcast into their funding model,

into their funding application.

So we would fall under the impact side.

It's the same place that you may try and
get funding for a conference, for example,

or for a focus group or an outreach.

Mm. So the podcast falls into that
section, and they'll come talk to us,

and we'll help come up with their idea
for them, give them the right language

to put into their applications, and then
they go away, put the application in.

And we have maybe four or
five at any one time ongoing.

And then as you know, university
sector finance funding, that

can take years to come back.

So that's part of, I guess,
the pro of working with us

is that we understand that.

Whereas other production companies would
want beginning to end really quickly.

The other type, and this happened really
recently, so like we had a research

project come to us, the Sustainable School
Leadership team, in November of last year,

and they had a pot of funding left at the
end of their project that was squirreled

away for impact, but they hadn't
quite worked out what to do with it.

But it had to get spent soon
because the project was ending.

So they came and spoke to us, and
we came up together with an idea of,

let's get this podcast out alongside
the project so you can really push

engagement in a different way.

They're looking outwards, and they're
bringing the people you're doing the

research with along for the ride with
you, and that's really important.

So it's not just we don't do research
on, we do research with- And there's

a key distinction there, I think

Neil McPhedran: That
funding part is unique.

I think the other part that struck me
that is quite unique about what you're

doing is the training side of things.

I think Jenn and I have done some
of that, but that training of the

researchers is, I find, super interesting.

What is some of the training that you
do with some of these researchers?

I presume some of them come to
you with zero experience at all,

so they're starting from scratch.

But you're director of training actually.

It's in your job title.

So maybe you can sort of dig into
that a little bit more for us.

Of

Krissie Brighty Glover: course I can.

That's actually how I started at RP.

So for me, I have an academic background.

I'm actually a historian by trade.

Anyone who knows me knows I'm a massive
geek, and that's part of, the best

part of this job is that I get to learn
new things with people all the time.

Mm. Like just this week I'm learning
about supply chains all the way through

to young carers and school leadership.

It's wide and I love it.

And part of that comes
in the training as well.

So our general model is that universities
or research projects will reach out to us,

and there's one of two ways they'll go.

If it's a research project that's got
an idea but doesn't have the funding

to take us on as production support,
we'll pull together what we call

our Launch Your Podcast workshop.

And in that we'll talk you through kind
of your idea, do a little bit of editing,

some market research, see what else is out
there, where your idea fits within that.

Mm. The idea that there's loads of
podcasts, where's my podcast gonna fit?

There's loads of TV shows,
people are still making them.

There's loads of books-

people are still writing monographs.

That, I don't think that should
stop you in your kind of process.

And then we talk about kit, equipment,
host, kind of demystifying how you

get your recording onto podcast apps.

So that's one way to do it, and
then we'll kind of hang around and

mentor them through the project.

So we've got quite a few
of those that are ongoing.

The other version is that a
university will reach out to

us as part of their training.

So whether that is doctoral training
partnerships that we have here, which

are collections of universities that
come together and they provide funding

for PhD students to do training,
and we would just come in- Mm

as part of that, part of the
public engagement side normally.

Or it's university departments.

So the way that that workshop works
is that you come in as an individual

person with your own idea, and
we'll talk you through what it takes

to get from idea to distribution.

And what we'll find on the way
through, so whether that's with PhD

students or early career researchers,
is some people absolutely adore the

editing side and the audio side- Mm

and they're all in.

Some people absolutely hate that
part, the mechanics part of it.

And those that hate the mechanics part of
it, we're always like, "There are other

ways around it." There's AI platforms
like Descript to help you with that.

Or you can, with your limited
funding budget, go and pay

just an editor to do that bit.

So it's about painting the picture of
what it takes to get a podcast out, and

it's more than audio, as you both know.

But once you've got that, what
can you do yourself and what can

somebody else take off your plate?

We find, we did a pro- production
Global Aid Rethink out of Royal

Holloway that was funded by the Social
Science Impact Accelerator, and at

the end of the project, the researcher
said to us, "We've never had so much

support creating an output before.

We didn't expect that.

We thought we would have to
do everything." You don't.

When you get a production company
on board or when you get support

from a centralized service, they can
take some of the pressures off you.

So whether that is the editing
or the scripting or the thing

that takes us the most time, if
I'm honest, is guest booking.

It's like managing calendars
is really difficult.

And a researcher is time poor.

So if you can get funding, you can
invest in people like us to take that

pressure off you, and you just turn up
to the recording and you do your thing.

If you want to, we can even
present for you as well.

We do that for a lot
of productions as well.

But I think that's the beauty
of employing somebody in is it

just takes that time for you.

Yeah.

JenniferLee: My favorite thing when I'm
talking to people about helping them with

their podcasts, they're like, "I just can
do it all myself," or, "I can get AI to

do it." And I'm like, "Okay, go ahead."
Because they don't realize how much time

and work it is, and I said, "We can help
take something off your plate, but I

don't advise you doing the whole thing."

Krissie Brighty Glover:
I completely agree.

Podcasting's not hard.

It's really not.

It's not difficult.

It is time-consuming.

That is the key- Yeah … problem
So for us, the people we work

with don't have time, so that's
why you get people to do it.

So that's why we're-

Neil McPhedran: It's a
very, very good point.

JenniferLee: I love that there's
easier tools to use to edit, but

this is where expertise like you
guys come in, help people learn how

to use these tools properly, 'cause
a lot of people are like- Yeah

"I'll use this tool and it'll be
easier and I won't have to pay an

editor." And then you listen to it
and it's like, well, that's crappy.

Krissie Brighty Glover:
I completely agree.

We're all about making you
sound the best version of you.

So we do like a presenter
training as well.

That's kind of another add-on that we do.

But my colleague who delivers that
training does a lot of media training

as well, and she'll talk about
your presenter is 125% of you, and

that extra 25% is what we're trying
to add on, but the 100% is you.

So we're not trying to change who you are.

So when you then start using AI
editors, they do change who you are.

They do clip you, and you get
those awful like popping sounds

that are really frustrating.

But we try to be as gentle with editing
as possible, and that we're trying to make

you the best version of you as you can.

And that's what you get
with a skilled editor.

JenniferLee: Yeah.

A lot of people think that AI is like an
easy fix and solution, and it's great.

It's a great colleague.

It's your coworker.

You're not making the poor
little AI do all the work.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Oh, completely.

And like every time we come across
a new AI product- sometimes we get

really excited about it, and then
you go and use it and you're like,

it doesn't quite work in my context.

So yeah, it is trial and error,
and that's part of our training,

and we say that right at the top.

We are only gonna teach you what
we do, so throughout today, this

is a learned experience, so we
will tell you about the challenges.

Podcasting, I like to call it the
beauty and the beast of podcasting,

in that anybody can do it.

That's the beauty of it.

That's also the beast of it.

There is some terrible stuff out
there, and we're trying to keep you

in the beauty and not the beast.

Neil McPhedran: Oh.

Love it.

I like that.

I think we've come up with our
title for this episode there.

JenniferLee: Well, as long
as Disney doesn't sue us.

Krissie Brighty Glover: I love

JenniferLee: that.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah, that's, that's good.

I, I wanted to ask like how many
researchers show up to your training

or at the beginning, and they're
actually regular podcast listeners

versus not regular podcast listeners?

Anecdotally on my end, we get
these, "Well, we're interested in

doing a podcast 'cause all of our
colleagues are doing a podcast."

Well, do you listen to podcasts?

"Well, no, not really." So I guess there's
probably an application there as well.

Krissie Brighty Glover: So we've
been doing the workshop quite a

long time, and at the beginning we
would have people turn up that never

even heard of the word podcast.

And it always amazed me 'cause
like, how have you signed up to a

10:00 to 4:00 course not even really
knowing what it was, to be honest.

That was kind of joyful in that
we'd have that all the way through

to people that already had a
podcast on the same workshop.

So it was about kind of
pulling those ideas apart.

But for us, right at the beginning,
we defi- literally get the Oxford

English Dictionary of what a
podcast is, and we talk about it.

Because for us, the definition
is changing all the time.

We know it is with the
introduction of video as well.

The amount of times people stop and
say to me, "What is the difference

between a video podcast and a
chat show?" And I don't know the

answer to that, if truth be told.

And sometimes I wonder if it even matters,
but- By giving that definition at the

top, we can then pull that apart across
the day and have conversations about why

academics should be using this medium,
and this is what this medium means.

But by the time you get someone who
comes to you with production, they've

got that slightly different angle in
that some of their peers don't think

it's academically rigorous enough.

Mm. And it's about getting that monkey
off their back and being like, "Actually,

I want to do this because there is an
academic point to why I'm doing this, and

there is a real engagement part of that."

One of my favorite types of podcasts
at the moment are co-creation or

participatory action research podcasts.

Okay.

So for us, co-creation is probably
the best way to explain it.

So it's about creating podcasts with
the people you're researching with.

And the point was that the researcher
behind it has done loads of

research on young carers, but we
wanna elevate their voices 'cause

they're the more important thing.

So we got them on, they decided
what they wanted to talk about, and

we provided a scaffold for that.

It's actually a really successful way
of getting people's voices and elevating

voices and- Mm … allowing people to tell
their stories, and it still be considered

research and academia, and really kind of
pull down those traditional ivory towers.

And I think participatory action
research and co-creation is really key

to that, and I'd love to do more of that.

So if there's anyone listening
that is interested in that,

definitely reach out to me.

Neil McPhedran: So instead of it
being the academic and they're the

host- it's more of a collaboration.

You're bringing in someone else who maybe
has a little bit more experience on the

mic, and you're kind of pulling all that
research and story out of that academic.

Krissie Brighty Glover: So
actually it's more the reverse,

like we take a step back.

Okay.

So what tends to happen is that we
walk into these rooms with people

that the research is being done on.

So they may be vulnerable
people, they may not be.

It's completely, it's a whole
remit of different people.

Depends what the research is.

Mm. And you sit down with them and you
have these ideas of like what you wanna

talk about, how you wanna talk about
it, but then you sit down with them

and they go, "That's not how we do it.
That's not what we wanna talk about."

And then all your ideas have to change.

So for us, it's about creating a scaffold,
building in flexibility, and trusting

that the people that you're working
with, we can get there in the end.

So it's about Finding a way of
creating something together.

And I think podcasting is so
great for that because if you have

people in your team that aren't
comfortable behind a microphone,

they can still have a role in this.

If you've got a research- Right
… project where you've got a really

great speaker, you've got someone
who's creative, you've got someone

who's got great ideas, someone
who's quite a good storyteller, you

can all get involved in a podcast.

It's different to a journal
article where it's insular.

It's a collaborative, it's a project team.

So I think that's something you should
bear in mind when you think about your

outputs is does, what does a podcast
bring out in my team that I can celebrate?

Neil McPhedran: That's good.

I like that.

Y- y- you know, there's so many
different ways to output and to

approach it, and I think sometimes we
get stuck in this rut of interviewing.

Krissie Brighty Glover: And like
for us, our sweet spot really,

our most common production, is to
have a researcher and then someone

living that experience together.

So yes, it is an interview format,
but you pull the researcher off

the page- Yeah … because I want
someone who lives that experience.

Yeah.

That's- Because I think that really
helps because the, the world that

we live in is quite niche, so
Listening figures are not huge.

When we talk about impact, it's
not just about who's listening and

the numbers, it's about why they're
listening, and part of that is

about the guests you have with you.

So don't just think of the podcast as the
output, it's also part of the methodology.

It's a part of your way
to get networking, right?

You can't get better public
engagement than that.

You're already bridging
that gap really early on.

JenniferLee: For me, listenership,
it can't be the focus of your

podcast, and too many people
think about how many listens.

And I'm like, even if
like though- Oh, right.

Yeah … you're, you're getting 50- Yeah
… or 100 constantly, that is somebody

listening to you, and you are an expert.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Absolutely.

And I actually was talking to
a researcher yesterday, a woman

called Candida, who's amazing.

Her project is called Rape on
Trial, and she purposefully designs

it so she filters people out.

It's intentional.

So her beginning is longer than a
normal podcast intro would be, and

she's offering trigger warnings, and
she really wants those who invest and

listen to know what they're investing in.

So she's intentionally creating a
product where she's filtering out people

she doesn't want to listen, which I
thought was really enlightening to me.

I was like, I hadn't
thought about it that way.

We spend so much- Yeah … time
thinking about get people to listen.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

Grow the audience.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Right.

But now it's like, get the
right people to listen.

Create that- Yeah … community.

So we say all the time in training,
I don't want 1,000 people to

listen and do nothing with it.

I'd rather 50 people listened
and did something with it.

Neil McPhedran: I, I think the other w-
lens to put on it is if this was research,

so i- if the output is a podcast-
Mm … if the output would've been a

monograph and you would've been ecstatic
to have 15 people read it, imagine if

you had 30 people listen to your podcast.

30 people doesn't feel like much, but
wow, when you put it up against who

might read the output, it feels amazing.

Krissie Brighty Glover: So,
absolutely, completely … that's

another kind of way to look.

And like when you write a monograph,
you don't think you're writing

a Times bestseller, do you?

Like, I'm not gonna get on
the top 10 bestseller list.

JenniferLee: Right.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Un- unlikely.

It's the same with a podcast.

So this is- Yeah … what we face
more in the training rather than

production, is that idea of, okay,
where am I gonna sit on these lists?

And I- for us, it's about targeting the
right audience, not a massive audience.

Neil McPhedran: You've worked with
a number of institutions, as we

sort of said off the top, some
quite known names like Oxford.

What are some of the bigger differences
you see in how universities are

structuring and managing podcasts?

Some universities centralize
podcasting through their comms

teams, while others kinda let
academics run with their own shows.

What are some of the pros and the
cons or approaches that you're seeing

working closely with these universities?

Krissie Brighty Glover: So the way
our business model works is that

the researcher tends to be the
person who reaches out to us first.

And then we get introduced to comms
teams if the researcher wants to.

And they don't always, because
as soon as you're in touch with a

comms team, the comms team then have
kind of some say over the content.

Neil McPhedran: Right.

Krissie Brighty Glover: So I was
thinking about this recently,

about peer review of podcasting.

That's a really t- hot topic, isn't it?

But when you start bringing in peer review
and the academic rigor, you lose a little

bit of the joy and the control you have.

So even on just like a logistical
thing, I create the artwork.

We tend to put the university
logos on the artwork because

it just adds that authenticity.

If I see something that says Migration,
Conflict and Crisis from LSE, I'm

probably more likely to click on
it with the LSE logo than I'm not,

because there's an added rigor to it,
I guess, is what I'm trying to get at.

So as soon as you do that, though, you
need to then abide by all their rules.

And then as soon as you enter that
world, it's really hard to get out of it.

So if you've got a small project, they
tend not to go down the comms route.

They try and avoid it-
Mm … because they can keep control.

However, if I've got a bigger project,
and quite a few universities now,

so with the hosting set up, it's a
subscription service that you have

to pay for, and the funding model
here is a beginning and end for us.

We work on a project basis.

So if I go to a funder and say,
"You've gotta pay a subscription

forever and ever and evermore," they
don't wanna do it because it doesn't

work- Right … with a funding model.

So universities are waking up to that,
and they're centralizing so they don't

have to pay 100 different subscriptions.

They pay one centralized one.

And the universities I know that
do it really well, UCL, Leeds,

and Oxford, all three of them do
a really good job of doing that.

They all do different hosting setups,
but they all use the same sort of idea.

Academics create their podcasts either
using us or doing it on their own, or

using skills that are in-house, their own
comms teams within their departments, and

then they submit it to a centralized team.

Neil McPhedran: Ah.

Krissie Brighty Glover: But
when you're working in a bigger

machine, things take longer.

So we say that a lot to researchers,
so some of them wanna launch things

around, say, a big conference coming up.

You need to work backwards
and factor in those times.

But the big benefit of using a
centralized system, other than just the

cost, is that when people search for
UCL or Oxford, you're in that search.

Yeah.

So standing out is really important,
so we actually encourage anybody that's

got a centralized system to use it.

We also encourage them to have a
look around to see if they've got

recording situations there as well.

So a lot of universities now have
podcast booth setups in the UK.

We say this to researchers all the time,
"Don't spend money booking studios.

You don't need to do
that." Have a look around.

But yeah, I would encourage any
university comms team listening to

this, start centralizing your podcasts
because you are wasting money allowing

your researchers to do it individually.

Neil McPhedran: Plus you can have
a little bit of control there.

You would know more than me, but just sort
of from an outsider looking into Oxford,

the Oxford logo and where it is and-

there is some rigor
there around the brand.

Krissie Brighty Glover: And what Oxford
do is incredibly intentional, so their

artwork is intended to be that way.

And to be honest, they
don't add too much control.

So we do the Center for Pod- Personalized
Medicine podcast for them, and it's all

about the ethics behind genomic testing.

You gotta bring the story with that
because genomic testing sounds really

abstract, but when you start talking
about how this affects people day

to day in everybody's lives, it's
a lot more interesting, and you can

really see what the research is about.

But we just edit that podcast for them.

We send it back to them at
the team, and then they send

it to the centralized system.

So there's not that much control there,
whereas UCL, you have to have transcripts.

They won't allow it not
to have a transcript.

Leeds allow you to access the system
yourself, so we have access to

Leeds' system to upload ourselves.

Mm. But it's every university's different,
and it will only take an email if you're

a researcher to find out what your system-

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

I, I think your advice though to
comms departments is very sound

JenniferLee: to wrap.

But centralizing the production
too and stuff, it helps because

then they all sound similar, and
they don't sound like you have a

different brand going on either.

Do you believe in networks, or do you
think that it's better for podcasts to

kind of just individually be out there?

Krissie Brighty Glover: Question.

I'm a fan of the centralized,
I think, for findability.

So we have lots of projects that
are niche, and I love them for

what they are, and I wish more
people would listen to them.

But they're hard to find because
there's other things in their field.

So, I don't know, the Sustainable
School Leadership, for example, if you

write school leadership into Spotify
in the UK, you're gonna get three or

four different ones above that one.

Whereas if you just happen to be
looking at University of Nottingham,

say you're thinking of applying, you
might stumble across this podcast in

a way that you wouldn't otherwise.

So I like the thought of
centralizing for findability.

If you are talking about a sensitive topic
I can see why you wouldn't wanna do it,

because you have to match brand ideology,
brand guidelines, and there's some

things that universities will not touch

JenniferLee: Are there many
edgy podcasts when it comes

to higher education podcasts?

Krissie Brighty Glover: Do you know what?

Not really.

The reality of you saying something
near the mark is quite unusual.

It's very rare that we
have something flagged.

It doesn't happen that often.

So yeah, I would go centralized.

Neil McPhedran: Well, maybe we'll
just sort of end with a little bit of

closing advice for researchers then.

So if, if, if you're a researcher
listening to this episode and

thinking about starting a podcast,
what advice would you give?

JenniferLee: I think
Krissie already answered it.

I th- you should just
hire Krissie and her team.

Neil McPhedran: Oh yeah, we'll

Krissie Brighty Glover: do it.

We'll do it for you.

Okay.

Have we ever told someone no?

No.

We've reworked ideas many times,
but we've never- Oh … gone

for flat no, if I'm honest, but-

Neil McPhedran: That would be
against the business model.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Although,
part of our busi- it wouldn't be

good for us either to put something
subpar out, so we wouldn't put- Yeah

something out we didn't believe in.

Like, we really believe in
the productions that we have.

I think the thing that people always do
is they'll come to us and their first

question is, "What equipment should I
buy?" That's not the first question.

So if I can give- Yeah … any advice to a
researcher is know why you want to do it.

Know what your purpose is.

All right.

Once you know what your purpose is,
every decision you make after that will

just fall in line with that purpose.

So right at the beginning, we want you
to get hold of your mission statement.

Why are you doing it?

And you can be honest
with yourself as well.

So is it that your purpose is to
elevate voices, so then you can

deviate from normal academic language
and be comfortable with that?

I'm not trying to talk to that audience.

Or is it that your research wants
to create real meaningful change?

If I wanna do that, I probably need
to get a change maker, somebody

who's got the power to make those
decisions, onto the podcast with me.

Knowing your purpose will change
the direction from the beginning

to the end, and it will keep
you going to the end as well.

Like, as much as I've said all the
way through, podcasting isn't hard.

It's not.

It's time-consuming, and if
you don't have a purpose-

JenniferLee: Agreed

…
Krissie Brighty Glover:
you will just stop.

JenniferLee: Because it's a long
slog, and you have to do it because

you wanna do it and you're passionate
about it, and there's other

opportunities that people don't realize.

Krissie Brighty Glover: Like, what
I always say in training is that,

look, this podcast is not gonna
replace traditional academic outputs.

I'm not saying to you, "Don't write
your monograph. Create a podcast".

What I'm saying to you is,
create a podcast in addition.

And I know that that is a lot 'cause
academics are juggling 100 things

at once, but it's really worth it.

Neil McPhedran: Well, I think that's
a good spot for us to close out.

Thank you so much, Krissie.

There was some really good nuggets
in there, and I'm looking forward

to collaborating in the future.

Well, Jen, another fabulous
episode, and what a great carry

on from that other episode we
did with Abigail a few weeks ago.

JenniferLee: I'm excited for your part
three with them that you did live.

But it was really interesting in
this interview because something you

and I chat about a lot is what is a
listen and what is the value of it.

Because I think a lot of people
discount the listens and they

just focus on the whole number,
being like thousands, millions.

But it's like it's not worth
anything if they're not doing

anything or continuing to listen.

And the whole training aspect, I really
found fascinating because I do a little

bit of training, but like actually
helping clients basically figure out how

to start a podcast, and you're kind of
like their coach, so they don't have to

pay you for the full gamut, but then they
pay for you to coach them through it.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

And not just that, but larger training
sessions, so not necessarily just for

an individual researcher who is looking
to get into podcasting, but th- these

larger kind of seminars and whatnot too.

The other sort of key takeaway
was about encouraging universities

to centralize podcasting.

In our other worlds, in our day jobs, if
you will, talking with and working with

other universities and institutions,
we definitely are pushing towards that.

But I thought that was some really
good insight from Krissie just

in, that centralizing of the
podcast infrastructure, rather than

leaving every individual project
to figure it out independently.

I think, I think we get caught up in
this, we need to have a podcast and

it should be every second week, and
it's like keep going and do this.

But it could be like the
British television shows

that there's six episodes.

That's what I like about them.

You're in, then you're out.

That's it.

There's such an opportunity in podcasting,
especially academic podcasting, for

that just sort of definable miniseries.

It's around a research topic.

And if you don't have that
central organization for

support, it's really hard.

JenniferLee: And they're not
scared to kill the main character

off of their TV shows either.

They just keep going with
people that make it interesting.

And universities can
learn from that as well.

Sometimes people come and work with the
university, and they're doing it while

they might be studying something as well,
and then they leave, and a new person

has to come in and still be lovable.

So there's a lot of things that
we can take away from those Brits.

Neil McPhedran: That's right.

JenniferLee: Thank you for tuning
into the Continuing Studies Podcast, a

podcast for higher education podcasters.

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