Continuing Studies: A Higher Education Podcast for University Podcasters

[00:00:00] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters. In each episode, we talk to a university podcaster to ask some questions, get answers, and share tips and ideas about higher education podcasting. Hi, I'm Jennifer Lee. I'm a radio broadcaster and a podcaster.
[00:00:21] Neil McPhedran: And I'm Neil McPhedran, I've come to podcasting after 25 years in the digital agency world. Together, we've hosted, executive produced, and launched [00:00:30] seven, and counting, higher education podcasts. Please remember to follow Continuing Studies in your listening app of choice and drop us a rating and or review, we'd love to hear your feedback. While you're at it, also join the University Podcaster Network on LinkedIn.
[00:00:44] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: This episode we are continuing our conversation with Craig Van Slyke. He is a Mike McAllister Eminent Scholar Chair in Information Systems at Louisiana Tech University. Prior to joining Tech, he was a professor and dean at W. A. Frank College of Business at [00:01:00] Northern Arizona University.
[00:01:01] He has also held faculty positions at St. Louis University, University of Central Florida, and Ohio University. He holds a PhD in Information Systems from the University of South Florida. Dr. Van Slyke has published over 30 articles in respected academic journals. Craig is a passionate podcaster and has three separate podcasts, a personal project called, Live Well and Flourish, the Cyber Ways [00:01:30] podcast, which was also the focus of last episode. So, if you missed it, this is actually a two-parter and we loved Craig so much that we had to have him back on here. So, make sure you catch up and go over to the previous episode, so you don't miss any of Craig's important information. And the last podcast, his third podcast is Information Systems for Business. So, there you go, I feel like you're all caught up now.
[00:01:55] Neil McPhedran: That's right, Jen. His third podcast is what we're going to focus on today. And this is really interesting actually. His third podcast is a companion essentially to his textbook, which is also called the same thing, "Information System for Business". So, what Craig's done is he's taken each of the chapters and created small podcast episodes. Some are five minutes, some are seven or eight minutes, but he's essentially summarizing each of those chapters [00:02:30] in their own little mini episode. So, he's created evergreen content that he can refer his students back before they jump into that lesson for that chapter. I think it's a great way for his students to have a palatable, sort of easy approach way, listen, almost like pre read.
[00:02:51] You'll notice when you do listen, he does put that warning up front that by no means episode cover off everything in that chapter, so you definitely got to read it as well, but it's a [00:03:00] really smart companion piece. It's also supplementary content for other profs that are using his textbook for their classroom. So, I thought this was a really ingenious idea. I'm excited to jump into the conversation with Craig.
[00:03:16] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: So, let's get started. Thank you so much, Craig, for joining us again. Can you tell us a little bit about this particular podcast and the purpose behind it?
[00:03:25] Craig Van Slyke: With the Information Systems for Business podcast, I know most of your listeners are going to be in higher ed, I don't want to shock anybody, but students don't like to read. I know I'm going to give that a minute just to sink in. I know that's a big surprise. I mean, I'm old, but it was nothing for us to have 50 or 75 pages of reading per class. Well, it just doesn't fly these days.
[00:03:46] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: That seems like a lot now.
[00:03:48] Craig Van Slyke: Yeah, well, it is a lot. Although, we start our quarter here in a few weeks, I may tell the students to expect to have 75 pages of reading every night and just watch their little eight o'clock heads explode, [00:04:00] but I digress.
[00:04:00] So, I wanted to find a way, even though our book is designed to be easy to consume, it can always be easier. And so, I thought, well, let me create this Information Systems for Business podcast. It's not a substitute for reading the book, but it helps reinforce everything that's in there. And it may even prod them to read the book. So, they'll hear something in the podcast, they'll want to know a little bit more about it, and maybe that'll get them to pay a bit more attention to the book. From an education standpoint, getting something two or three times is not a bad thing. And so, it's [00:04:30] one more touch point for the student. But the purpose there is 100 percent to help the students. You know, does it bring a few more book sales?
[00:04:38] Maybe, but probably not. But it does help that student that's really taking a lot of classes or trying to work part time, you know, all that sort of thing, and it's one more way they can get the content as they're coming in to hear the lecture, they're getting ready to prep for a test, whatever it is they're doing, it's that one more touch point.
[00:04:55] And I want to circle back to the multiple podcasts for a [00:05:00] moment. That third podcast was pretty easy to do. Because I knew how to do things from the first two podcasts. And so that third one, you know, I wrote the scripts, recorded the podcast, put it out there. No big deal. And so I think that's something to keep in mind.
[00:05:15] If your listeners start one podcast, look for those targets of opportunity where they can leverage what they've learned.
[00:05:20] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Not to date us, but I definitely went to school, to university, many years ago where we did not have audio help. Yes, we had computers and stuff, but it was a [00:05:30] lot of reading. And I just feel like I would excel way better at university now, nowadays with YouTube and podcasts and everything because, like you said, if you're doing alot of studying and work, it's great while you're cleaning to maybe put on a podcast to do with the topic.
[00:05:47] And that way you're not trying to cram everything in you. It kind of makes learning a little bit more manageable, especially at the higher ed level. So, I love the fact that you're doing this because it is kind of a future way of learning.
[00:06:00] Craig Van Slyke: I think so. The other thing that's a little bit out there, I suppose, but people live in an on-demand world today.
[00:06:07] You know, when I was a kid, you listened to music that the DJ on the radio station wanted you to listen to. And then if you earned enough money to buy an album, I know, I'm really old, you know, whatever songs were on that album, you listened to them pretty much in the order in which they were on the album. And then mixtapes became a thing.
[00:06:26] Now, you listen to music when you want to listen to it. And so, students are kind of wired to not be set to a hard and fast schedule. The higher ed is still, you know, with the exception of asynchronous online learning, it's still, and my students are going to show up hopefully Tuesday and Thursday at eight o'clock in the morning.
[00:06:43] But now with the podcast, they're walking their dog, or if they're commuting to class, or if they're, you know, up late cleaning their apartment or whatever, now they've got an opportunity to do some learning. And so, I think higher ed, and this is a little editorial, higher ed is going to have to move in that direction at some point.
[00:07:01] Neil McPhedran: I agree, especially when you think about, um, attention spans as well too; the, you know, this tick tock reels world we live in, which is like these little dopamine hits and it goes into the next one, the next one, the next one versus like reading a whole chapter. So, I think you're totally onto something here. It's excellent. So.
[00:07:20] Craig Van Slyke: I'm not going to be dancing to any of my, I just want to get that out there.
[00:07:23] Neil McPhedran: I don't think you have to go that far, Craig. Let's keep digging into Information Systems for Business Podcast. So, is the podcast available on all podcast apps?
[00:07:34] Craig Van Slyke: It is. Uh, it does not have its own website or anything like that. If you just search Information Systems for Business Podcast, should be able to find it or search my name and should be able to find it.
[00:07:45] Neil McPhedran: So, curious why you didn't make it a private podcast. There's a lot to talk about private podcasts now. Why did you make it out there in the wild? What was your thinking there?
[00:07:55] Craig Van Slyke: Despite the fact that I have a textbook that students have to pay for, I kind of buy into the information should be free idea. The podcast episode really isn't a substitute for reading the book. Most of them are five to seven minutes long, so it's not like they go into a lot of detail. And so, there's somebody out there in the world that can get a little bit of what I'm putting out. I don't see anything wrong with just giving that to them for free. The cost of somebody consuming this content to me is zero. So, kind of what difference does it make to me?
[00:08:24] Neil McPhedran: Yeah, it's an interesting add on, if you will. I mean, it's obviously for the students and it's an addition, as you've explained. But for us out there in the general public, there's some really interesting stuff in there for sure. And there's nice bite size bits of information that you're serving up.
[00:08:39] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: A lot of people think of podcasts as pure entertainment value, but now we're realizing that so much can come out of a podcast, for business, for school, just in our daily lives. And it doesn't need to necessarily be 45 minutes. It can be 15 minutes. It can even be five minutes. Um, so I just like the fact that, you [00:09:00] know, you're running with this and I'm sure your students appreciate it as well. Your kind of trying different things. We kind of have to keep up with where they are. They're watching TikTok, that's like 10 seconds long. So, if you're not adapting your teaching style to what is going on in your modern audience, you're going to lose them.
[00:09:18] Craig Van Slyke: Well, and I teach technology. So, you know, they see me using technology or at least trying to use it in innovative ways. Well, you know that does that boost my credibility? Maybe. I can do things that they can't do. That's kind of the way to build your reputation.
[00:09:33] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: But you won't be indulging in TikTok. So
[00:09:35] Craig Van Slyke: I will not. That would be bad.
[00:09:37] Neil McPhedran: Have you seen any difference in the, in your students who listen to the podcast, any sort of any anecdotal or feedback from them that sort of results in an uptick in learning comprehension, or anything like that?
[00:09:49] Craig Van Slyke: That's an interesting question. And so, we actually have a paper under the latter stages, I think it's under third review, where we did a study of this. I had to be a little bit careful because I don't require [00:10:00] students to listen. They can listen, they can not listen, doesn't make any difference to me. Whatever works for them. Kind of back to Jen's, you know, how you like to learn comment from earlier. If it helps them great, they don't have to listen.
[00:10:10] So I couldn't really tie it directly to like test scores and that kind of thing. But the students who listened indicated that it helped them, that it did increase their understanding of the material, help them prepare for tests, which we all know is the really important thing.
[00:10:26] And, so I think it does help them. Like I said, I can't point to there's a, you know, 9-point increase on their midterm scores because of anonymity, but I'm convinced that at worst, it's not going to hurt. And it's so low effort. Like I said, put it on when you're driving to school.
[00:10:41] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Are you finding that there's other professors doing what you're doing in your institute or are you kind of like the one that's paving the way for everybody?
[00:10:50] Craig Van Slyke: I'm not sure if anybody else is doing it, although we do have a number of our faculty who are doing video on demand and, you know, short form tutorials and that kind of [00:11:00] thing. I'm not sure anybody has been crazy enough to try a podcast yet. But, you know, they're doing similar things by putting materials, secondary learning materials on our learning management system., So I think it's kind of got the same idea behind it, maybe with a different approach.
[00:11:15] Neil McPhedran: Is this something that you've garnered faculty support with, or is this something you're doing all on your own?
[00:11:21] Craig Van Slyke: So, Information Systems for Business is entirely me, university has nothing to do with that.
[00:11:26] Neil McPhedran: What about other profs that use your textbook, do they also assign the podcast listening? Anything you've heard from them? Any feedback you've gotten from your colleagues directly who utilize the textbook as well?
[00:11:40] Craig Van Slyke: I've heard a couple that liked the idea, but judging from the download statistics, there are people well outside of my university that are listening to it, multiple countries, the whole nine yards. You know, we have a fairly regional student population, but there are people kind of all over the world that listen to it. Somebody likes it.
[00:11:59] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Besides analytics though, do anybody around the world like reach out to you and say, oh, I love what you're doing? Do you get fan mail?
[00:12:06] Craig Van Slyke: Does anybody ever tell a professor that? No, I don't. You know, engagement is really hard in podcasting, you know, so to get anybody to send you an email or let you know you're doing well or that sort of thing, it's pretty, pretty rare in my experience.
[00:12:21] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Well, like reading, nobody likes writing either. So, a lot of people don't want to spend the time to write.
[00:12:28] Craig Van Slyke: So, to all of your listeners, if you get any feedback, it's fantastic. But don't get disappointed if you don't hear from anybody. It's kind of a yelling into the void sometimes.
[00:12:38] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: And that's a good lesson for everyone and your partner Tom probably could relate to this as well because I always tell people this, when I worked on radio, it is the hardest format for me. Because you are in a booth, it is very lonely. You're in a booth by yourself, you're putting on a show, unless you have a co-host, but still. And you have no clue if people [00:13:00] like what you're doing, and then, of course there's ratings, but again, that can be skewed. I always tell people that are podcasting, it's the same way, don't get discouraged, like you said, people are listening, and just remember, sometimes when people like something, they love it, they're not necessarily going to share, though, with you that they love it. If you get hate mail, it's the best because it means people are actually listening to you. It takes a lot of effort for someone to write an email and people don't like writing, so if they are that fired up, I say take that as like you're doing something right.
[00:13:31] Craig Van Slyke: You're really not a podcaster until you get a one-star review.
[00:13:34] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Yeah. And then it fuels you. You're like, yeah, that person took their time to give me a one star.
[00:13:40] Craig Van Slyke: Yes. And I hate you too. So, we're all even.
[00:13:44] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Love that.
[00:13:45] Neil McPhedran: That said, Craig, though, you must be tempted when you assign, like say chapter 10, to look at the episode, according to episode and see over the next week, how many downloads there are for that one in your area.
[00:13:56] Craig Van Slyke: I can absolutely tell you that when we pilot [00:14:00] tested this over kind of at our university, it'd be, you know, little blips and blips. And I know our listeners can't see my finger moving up and down. And then all of a sudden there'd be this spike. Guess what happens right after the spike? Guess what event in class happens?
[00:14:14] Neil McPhedran: It's a test.
[00:14:14] Craig Van Slyke: Yeah, there's an exam. But that's actually great. When I was in my doctoral program, I had to commute about a half an hour to campus. Think about this. I would record the lectures for my statistics classes and listen to them every day as I'm driving out to [00:14:30] campus and every day as I'm driving home.
[00:14:31] Now, it's not exactly the most riveting material in the world, and back then it was the blackboard. You don't have the blackboard with the professor showing you the equations. You're just listening to it. Just to get that one more time, maybe two more times kind of burns it into your brain. So, I love seeing students listen right before the exam, you know, well, aren't they cramming? Yeah, sure.
[00:14:51] Neil McPhedran: That's great. I love that. I got one more question regarding Information Systems for Business. So, off the top of each episode, you have a fairly extensive disclaimer. Could you maybe unpack that a bit more for us?
[00:15:05] Craig Van Slyke: Yeah, if I can remember it all. So, basically, it's any knucklehead of mistakes are my fault. I mean, that's really the long and short of it. It's kind of, here's what the book is, you know, if there are any mistakes, it's on me, it's not on anybody else. And then I also say multiple times, I even make a joke out of this within each episode, read the book. This is not a substitute for actually reading the book and listening in class and doing what your professor asks you to do.
[00:15:29] And then the, as I recall, maybe I also say that there are things where different professors have different perspectives on it. Your professor is the one who's going to grade your exam. So, whether they're right or I'm right, they're right as far as you're concerned. So, it's probably a little overboard with the disclaimers, but I was a Dean. So, you know, you get risk averse.
[00:15:49] Neil McPhedran: I thought it was great. I like the reminder each time to the students that, you know, if it's a different prof, so on and so forth, you add in there. I thought it was refreshing to hear you say it's all on me. It's not my co author. It's not so on and so forth. So, I found that quite refreshing, actually.
[00:16:06] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: Hey, and we're in a time where we have to put disclaimers on everything. I feel like you've got to tell everyone, like, this is not the full information. Like, don't, you know, just kind of.
[00:16:15] Craig Van Slyke: No, it's going to be better because we can blame deep fakes. No, that wasn't me. That was a deep fake.
[00:16:20] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: uh, don't even get me started on deep fakes. Let's wrap this up. And it's been a fantastic interview.
[00:16:28] Neil McPhedran: Really fantastic. And we really appreciate your time today.
[00:16:31] Craig Van Slyke: Very much enjoyed being on, enjoyed the conversation, um, and so I want to thank you for having me on.
[00:16:36] Neil McPhedran: Well, Jen, that was a really amazing conversation, discussion we had with Craig. Not just what we're featuring in this episode, but also the previous episode as well.
[00:16:48] And it really is clear how, Craig is just a passionate educator, not just a podcaster. I'm really [00:17:00] struck how he is using audio and podcasting to make it more accessible to his students in this example, particularly, uh, specific to the textbook he's written.
[00:17:15] But wider, if we include The Cyber Ways podcast, his other podcasts, which we talk about in episode five, how he's making academic papers, which are very unapproachable typically to the wider audience, making that [00:17:30] approachable to the cybersecurity professional world. So, I think Craig is just doing some amazing things in audio and podcasting. I think we've learned a lot from him in these two episodes.
[00:17:42] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: I totally agree. He's definitely making education more accessible for a lot of people. And I think that's just what I like about his podcasts in general. He's taking information that sometimes is very complex to understand, especially if you're not in the field, and he's making it for [00:18:00] everybody.
[00:18:00] Neil McPhedran: You're right, Jen. I think there's a real key takeaway here, specifically focused on textbooks. I think this is a real opportunity for other professors who write textbooks to think about this and apply what Craig is doing here.
[00:18:15] This isn't an audiobook. I think probably most, um, anyone who writes a book these days, like, it's like a requirement to do an audiobook version. So, let's not get confused with that. This is just a real great companion to a textbook and another way for students to consume and to, um, get all those through another mechanism.
[00:18:41] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: I love that. It's like a learning companion. So I think it's another great conversation. I'll let everyone think about that as we head on out here. Till next time.
[00:18:52] Neil McPhedran: See ya.
[00:18:53] Jennifer-Lee Gunson: See ya.
[00:18:56] Neil McPhedran: Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies Podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring.
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