Continuing Studies: for Higher Ed Podcasters

The opportunity then is to figure out
how can those of us who exist in sort of

this liminal space in between traditional
and public help translate that high

quality scholarship into something
that makes for a compelling story.

And so it's really thinking about who
are the audiences we're trying to reach.

Of course, with each show, we have very
specific audiences in mind, but we'll take

everyone who wants to come to the table.

Welcome to Continuing Studies,
a podcast for higher education

podcasters to learn and get inspired.

I'm Neil McPhedran, founder
of Podium Podcast Company.

And I'm Jennifer-Lee and the
founder of JPod Creations.

Podcasting is broadcasting.

We want you to know you're not alone.

In fact, there are many of you
higher ed podcasters out there, and

we can all learn from each other.

We are growing that community and
we talk about it all the time, but

we're growing that community on
Higher Ed Pods, HigherEdPods.com.

And we're inching towards getting
a thousand podcasts in there.

Today we are chatting with Jeanette
Patrick and Jim Ambuske and they

are with R2 Studios, which is
a network of history podcasts.

Yeah, I'm really excited to talk to them.

They've got a few great ones, which
I wanna be an avid listener of.

Of course Your Most Obedient and
Humble Servant, A Woman's History

and Worlds Turn Upside Down.

So we're gonna chat with them
what it's like to create these

podcasts because they're like
full fledged research podcasts.

They are historians.

There's sound effects in them.

They are really like a treat for the ears.

Yes.

This is a great conversation because,
and we've chatted with a few different

networks as of late, but I like
this, that it's a network that's all

focused in on, on the humanities,
but more so focused in on history.

And so we get into talking a bit
about how they've created this

network, but also as Jen, you're
saying the, you know, the specific

podcast that they've created within.

So with that said, why don't we jump in.

Leave it to the experts.

Let's chat to them.

Jeanette and Jim, it's so
nice to have you here today.

Thanks for joining us
on Continuing Studies.

Thanks for having us.

Yeah, thanks for having us.

So let's get into it.

This is really exciting.

R2 Studios, as your website says,
explores history through podcasts.

We tell unexpected stories
based on the latest research to

connect listeners with the past.

Maybe just tell us a bit about the
story behind the founding of R2 Studios.

R2 Studios was founded through a grant
from the Mellon Foundation with the

idea of finding ways to take quality
scholarly research and translate it for

a public audience through podcasting.

And so we've been fortunate to
make a series of series that

we think really do that well.

Since then, we've been able to work with
a lot of different scholars internal to

the Roy Rosenzweig Center of History and
new media at George Mason University,

but also a number of great external
scholars just to, again, help find ways

to connect a very interested and excited
public audience who wants really exciting

and interesting stories about the past.

But they're not gonna go read journal
articles and they don't have the

time to read the latest research.

But they like hearing these stories and
they wanna learn more and dig deeper.

Yeah.

And it's keeping with the
Rosenzweig Center's mission, which

is 31 years old now, of using
technology to democratize history.

Our center was kind of at the forefront,
really at the cusp of digital history,

digital humanities in the early 1990s
of figuring out how to as Roy Rosenzweig

would say, put history on the web.

And the podcast is the
next iteration of that.

Podcasting technology emerged about 10
years after the Rosenzweig Center started.

It really became a thing in terms
of listenership in 2014 with series

like Serial and whatnot taking off.

But historians, although they are out
there on podcasts, uh, and producing their

own podcasts, not as much as we would
like to think that they should or could.

And in this moment when we're facing all
sorts of challenges in the humanities,

when we have public audiences who may
not have been history majors and thought

history was boring, but have found history
through other means in their adult life,

that podcasting is a really critical way
to educate them about the past and a very

entertaining and hopefully compelling way.

Maybe I'm stereotyping here, but I'm
wondering if, because there's not a lot

of history-esque podcasts out there,
do you think it's because some of the

historians are maybe a little camera shy
or maybe, you know, we always think that

they've just got their nose in the book
and they're studying, so maybe they just

don't really want to speak about it.

And that's why we see
so many written forms.

I think that's part of it.

I mean, and I'm, you know, Jeanette is
properly trained as a public historian.

I'm trained as a traditional historian
with a digital humanities background,

but I think that's a concrete part of it.

In the academy setting, your audience
is your peers and your peers expect a

very specific form of writing that's
not necessarily to inspire you to

think about new ideas, but not exactly
designed to move you emotionally

or carry you along through a story.

It's very analytical, it's very critical.

It's very steeped in historiography.

You can do that in this mode, but you
have to be willing to accept the fact

that your audiences may be smaller.

But the opportunity then is to figure
out how can those of us who exist in

sort of this liminal space in between
traditional and public help translate that

high quality scholarship into something
that makes for a compelling story.

And so it's really thinking about who
are the audiences we're trying to reach.

And it's, we'd like to say
the widest possible audiences.

Of course, with each show we have
very specific audiences in mind, but

you know, we'll, we'll take everyone
who wants to come to the table.

Love it.

And when you're historians like
yourselves, was this something

you guys always wanted to be
and get into or did you totally

wanna do a different career path?

I think I stumbled into history more.

I enjoyed it.

I enjoyed the storytelling.

It was a subject I always really liked,
but I didn't initially start out majoring

in history and it was kind of one of
those, I missed those types of classes.

So I eventually found my way back into
history classes and just really enjoyed

them and wanted to continue pursuing it.

And then it was the realization of like,
you can't do anything with a bachelor's

in history, so might as well continue on.

But I think it was,

I think that's most degrees.

Right.

Yes.

And then the public side was more just
the, I was never especially interested

in writing anything incredibly long.

Like I did it when I needed to, but
you know, I liked to find different

ways to reach wider audiences and
enjoyed those types of classes.

And then internships and
experiences outside of a

traditional educational setting.

And so, kind of how I
ended up in public history.

I fell into it by virtue of being hired
at George Washington's Mount Vernon, where

I actually first worked with Jeanette.

As you know, I was a traditionally trained
historian with a background in digital

history, digital humanities, but when I
was hired to run the Center for Digital

History at Mount Vernon, part of the gig
was hosting a podcast that was then called

Conversations at the Washington Library.

I had no idea how to do that.

I had to learn very quickly, and
fortunately I was able to rely on

previous teaching experience to think
about how I was going to shepherd

a guest through an interview.

And then from there, actually Jeanette
and I developed a narrative series

about the enslaved community at Mount
Vernon called Intertwined that helped

us think about what it would take
to write narrative history podcasts.

And then we ended up both at George Mason.

That's, that is I, I, I, I love
the twists and turns there.

My son is just going to University
of Toronto and history, so we've been

talking about the importance of a
history degree and what he's gonna do

with his history degree and everything.

So, but I have really been
personalized a little bit.

I think podcasting has really
helped me get into history more.

I mean, obviously I live in a podcasting
world, so I listen to a lot of podcasts.

But other than like the business
podcasts and the podcasts about

podcasting, which I listen to a lot
of, I've really been drawn to history

podcasts as of late, and there's more
out there than you think actually.

Jeanette, why do you think that
podcasts are such a particularly

powerful medium for engaging a,
a wider audience with history?

I think some of it is just the medium.

I mean, people can listen to whatever
they want, you know, wherever they

are while they're doing other things.

But I think good history is all about
really interesting stories and it's

easy to think about how to turn the
critical arguments into a story.

And so I think that podcasting lets us
think about a discipline that the general

public doesn't understand as story focused
and help them see that aspect of it.

The, the good history podcasts don't harp
on dates and facts and memorizing things.

They really wanna pull you in and
show you the complexities and show you

different players and help people just
understand better what was happening.

And, and there are many
different ways to do that.

We do it mostly through narrative,
but also through some interview shows.

But I think the interview shows also allow
scholars to do that by, you know, pulling

out the most interesting people or events
or moments and really dig into why they're

interesting or, you know, those archival
moments that are fun and that you discover

something that no one else knew was there.

And so, you know, I think that that
just, it allows people to see the

aspect of the discipline, that I think
is why a lot of historians end up in

the discipline, that people just don't
realize is such a key point to it.

So I'd love to just sort of dig in a
little bit like, 'cause as our show,

we're really talking to other podcasters
in academia and in higher education.

Maybe just sort of like, let's just, I'd
like to drill a little bit on the network

you've created because I think this is a
really interesting thing for podcasters

to sort of think about a network.

Did R2 start out with this vision
of we're going to be a network?

I think there's seven podcasts as part
of R2 Studios, if I have that right.

You started with a grant, as you
mentioned, which is fantastic, but

like was the vision always we're gonna
create this network of podcasts, or

did it start with one or two of those
projects you mentioned and kind of

just sort of turn into a network?

Yeah.

Vision was always a network.

Abby Mullen created Consolation Prize
as kind of a test case to see how

could academic scholars create podcasts
that were for a wider audience.

And through that series and
learning how to make a, a show

with a wider focus, we were able to
then grow and build on that idea.

And so from the beginning, the
hope was that R2 Studios would

be a network of series created by
historians for a wider audience.

I think our thought was that we're
fortunate to work with a lot of

great scholars who can tell just
so many different types of stories

to different types of audiences.

And from the start, we wanted to make
something that was more than just our

research center, putting out one series
at a time, but really thinking about

this network and how we could bring
people in and have them listen to some

of our shows and then broaden to others.

Yeah, it's about creating an ecosystem.

Certain shows like the Humble Servant,
Your Most Obedient Humble Servant, which

is an interview type program and a few
others we've got in the works in terms

of the interview format, something like
that we can conceivably produce at higher

volume and then bring those listeners
back into our ecosystem so that they can

enjoy some of our more narrative shows,
which take a lot longer time to produce.

So if, if we can kind of create a,
a productive feedback loop between

our series and, you know, strike
partnerships or work collaboratively with

colleagues, not only internally to our
university, but elsewhere, then we can

create relationships and networks that
enhance our existing infrastructure.

And offer our audiences a number of
choices and selections that hopefully

they can't get anywhere else.

And podcasting is a lot of work,
regardless of whatever theme

you're talking about or whatever
topic you're talking about.

But for you guys, because history,
obviously you're always studying it,

you're always researching it, but
it, it takes long lengths to know

what you guys are talking about and
to make sure that you're credible.

So how long does it take
to put these podcasts on?

Excellent question.

It varies by series, but to kinda give
you a sense of World's Turned Upside

Down, which is my primary series,
between reading, doing research, finding

some primary sources, interviewing
scholars, sitting down and thinking

about what we've recorded and what
we want to achieve, and then actually

writing a script and recording it.

We're probably looking at a two
month production time on an episode.

The thing I wanna stress though,
is that this is not a series that

I could have done 10 years ago,
fresh out of graduate school.

I mean, I, my primary focus
is the American Revolution.

That was my PhD and so I had read a
ton of books by that point, but the

subsequent literature and the publications
over the last 10 years have been so

compelling and have really begun to
reshape thinking about the revolution

in pretty amazing ways, that in a lot
of ways, it required this buildup time

so that I could come to the table with
this literature in my head and say, all

right, here's the framing for this series.

Here are what the episode
themes are gonna be.

Here are the top people
we want to talk to.

Let's get after it.

I think it would've been difficult to
launch a series soon after I graduated,

'cause as well read as I was at that
point, now I feel like I'm in a very good

position to make a real contribution.

I don't think that enough people do their
research before cracking the mic on.

It doesn't necessarily
have to be history related.

It could be current events, it
can just be fashion, it could

be whatever we're talking about.

You need to know what
you're talking about.

And everyone has this misconception
that like, oh, if I'm prepped, I'm

not gonna come off as like loose and
like it's just gonna seem natural.

And I'm like, no, no.

That's how you seem natural.

Is it 'cause you know
what you're talking about.

So I would just feel that
in history, two months.

That feels like a lot of commitment to
make sure that your episodes are solid.

Yeah, it's, it's pretty intense and,
you know, I'm stubborn and so I probably

don't help myself sometimes, where
I'm like, I must read one more book,

or we must interview one more person.

But again, I think, as I said earlier, it
could not have happened a few years ago.

And I, I come at this series
very different, I think, than a

lot of other historians of the
American Revolution might have.

In my case here, I'm less interested in
the independence of the United States than

I am in the collapse of British America,
which transforms not only people and what

becomes the United States, but of course
up in Canada where some of you are now.

And that makes our history
intrinsically and inevitably linked.

And so we have to think about what were
the consequences for that imperial crisis

that not necessarily created just one
country, but several in a very real sense.

I, I gotta say, I have started listening
to the World's Turned Upside Down podcast

and, um, a couple episodes into it.

I'm really enjoying it, and I can
understand how it is so time consuming.

We'll put the link to everything in our
show notes just for people listening.

But there's a lot of
sound engineering there.

There's not just narration, there's
sound effects and music and really good

storytelling, but it's super interesting
to hear your background take on it

as well, like just what you've said.

I just find that really interesting,
that overarching narrative

that you've just provided.

Well, thank you very much.

Yeah, and I'm curious because with
history, obviously there's a lot of

research in it, but some people might
think they know better than you.

Do you guys ever get comments
challenging what you're talking about

or people adding to the conversation,
maybe some tidbits that you didn't

know or you missed or left out?

Occasionally, particularly on YouTube,
it seems, and usually it comes down to

my pronunciation with certain words.

Sometimes I will just bungle an
indigenous name or place name.

Not intentionally, but sometimes
I just don't get it right.

Somebody was critical of
the way I said Tobago versus

Tobago in one of the episodes.

But we work really hard to ensure that
what we produce meets muster with our

peers in the academy, so that when we do
the storytelling aspects of it, it will

be correct and consistent with the best
interpretations, but also then compelling.

And, you know, Jeanette plays a critical
role in this because sometimes my scripts

can get very long as if you've looked
at the timestamps for Worlds on the

episode lengths, and so she's always
very good about, all right, we need

to cut the fat, this is ridiculous.

You can't say it this way.

Is there a source for this?

So it's really good to have that feedback
loop with each other to ensure that

we're really doing our due diligence.

Who do you see as your ideal audience?

You did say a while back that
you've got a wider audience,

but who is that ideal audience?

And maybe just sort of second part
of that is have you been surprised

at all by who is actually tuning in?

Anything that sort of surprises you there?

Yeah.

I think the ideal audience
varies for each of our series.

They are similar in style, but we know
that one of our series, The Green Tunnel,

which is a history of the Appalachian
Trail and the target audience was for

people who really enjoyed their hobby
of hiking and spending time outdoors

and wanted to learn more about the
history of their leisure activity.

And so for that series it was thinking
about what topics and I would bring

them into the series, and how could we
hook that audience, who maybe wouldn't

describe themselves as history lovers,
but did in fact want to learn more

about how they spend their free time
or the locations that they're in.

With series like Worlds Turned Upside
Down and Your Most Obedient Humble

Servant or Antisemitism USA, I think we
were thinking of a slightly different

audience in that we were thinking about
people who were interested in learning

more about the history of our country
or a specific aspect of that history.

And people who would describe themselves
as in their free time wanting to

go to museums or historic sites and
who just really wanted to better

understand these different moments in
our past or how they're interrelated.

And like learning new things as
part of their leisure activity.

And so they're the people who wanna
listen to a history show while

walking the dog or doing the dishes.

I think what surprised us the most about
the World's audience is we've gotten a

number of comments from people who talk
about listening with their children,

and I think that that's not something
we were expecting because, you know,

it is a, it's a very violent series.

There's a lot of death in most
episodes because it was a bloody

time in our country's history.

It's not something that I think we
thought would be a family activity.

So that has been really fun to hear
people talk about, you know, excited

to listen with and we suspect they're
older children, but I think that's

what surprised us the most about like
comments from the World's audience.

I do like what you said about the
audience and there's different audiences.

And then if I go back to what you
were saying about the network, and

that network effect is you may pull
someone in through one podcast, they're

exposed to other ones and you can
really sort of cross pollinate, open

up that audience and like obviously
that's part of your strategy there.

That you've got different shows,
different audiences, but there's

that cross pollination if you will.

And I think that's a really interesting
strategy that you're employing.

Yeah.

And it's fun to see how people who
were listening to The Green Tunnel

engage with some of our other shows.

'Cause that is a very different
audience than a lot of the people

who listen to Worlds or Humble
Servant or Antisemitism USA.

It's an opportunity, right?

You're not gonna capture 50% of one
show on another show, but if you get 10%

who are like, oh, this is interesting.

Let's give this a try, then
we've done our job in a sense.

We've exposed them to a different
aspect of history they may

not have considered before.

I think this is the power of networks
and thinking about this way, and we

talk about this with a lot of higher
education podcasters, is we'll come

across or we work with, you know, one
podcast in one school and we're trying

to encourage them to think about, you
know, rising tides lifts all boats.

Like just 'cause you're in the law
school doesn't mean you can't engage

with this great podcast coming out of the
school of engineering kind of a thing.

And R2 Studios is focused on, is
more tightly focused on history.

But I think there's something here for
all of us higher education podcasters

to think about this network effect
and pulling someone in through one

introduces you to these other podcasts.

Well, you're absolutely right, and
what you're describing is a very

university thing to do, which six
different departments or divisions

are all starting kind of the same
methodology or same project or a podcast.

And, you know, at Mason we're very
fortunate to have an internal recording

studio, but we could walk to the
library, there's a sound booth there.

There's, in the student center,
there's actually two I think, and

then in the new Arlington campus
they have built another one.

And it's just what universities do, right?

The parts are so big they
don't talk to each other.

And there are some attempts at
coordination, but you know, it would

be to the university's benefit to kind
of have these all under one umbrella

or at least a centralized place.

So if somebody was interested in
the University of British Columbia

or George Mason University, they
could go to that place and see

what's what on campus or what people
are doing on campus and producing.

And I think we've seen this a lot
with the commercialized networks.

I mean, that is how you see these large
studios, some as big as Wondery, but

then there are smaller ones that have
slightly more niche topicality, but

they're using the network method to
do, which is what you've described, to

funnel people in and get them interested
in one show and then expose them to

all of the other connected shows.

And so I think that's something that we've
also been trying to pay attention to is

who is being commercially successful.

And even though, you know, we have
a different mission than those

organizations, how can we think about
using those strategies with R2 Studios?

That's smart.

Because I think sometimes, you're right,
there's a different mission for, you

know, there's a different reason for
podcasting than a monetized podcast per

se, but it doesn't mean that we can't
look to those commercial monetized podcast

networks for learnings and to apply those
learnings in the academic world as well.

I also feel like there's missed
opportunities sometimes with these

universities that maybe don't realize
there is networks or there's other

podcasts out there that if you have
the right topic or you are able

to bring people on why don't we do
cross-promotion to help everybody?

Yeah, and it's funny too, it's
particularly an issue in the humanities

where there's this idea, well, we
have contributed to the knowledge of

humanity and we will not talk about
it because that would be bragging.

And it's like, you know, if you're fans
of the, of Boiler Room, which was sort of

my generation's Wall Street, one of the
big lessons from that is A, B, C. Right?

Always be closing.

Like you've gotta get out there
and, and sell your stuff and

with it in a very strategic way.

And I think it's in this moment as, as
we've been sort of talking about when

the humanities are in question, when
universities themselves are in question,

I think it's incumbent on us to do as
much as we can to talk about the work

and the value we bring to society.

And this is a really
great medium to do that.

And why should we spend so much time
and effort on these projects if we're

not gonna tell people about them
so that they can listen to them?

It's not even like thinking about
like, oh, we're bragging about, no.

It's like we did this
so people can listen.

Let's tell people so that they do listen.

Yeah.

You're completely right.

You're totally right.

So I'm just gonna switch
gears a little bit here.

I think one of the things that
we come across or hear is when

launching things, getting things up
and going, is that initial funding.

And I think unfortunately we're gonna
start to see more of that I think in the

coming months in the academic world with
sort of the political climate right now.

But how did the, just sort of
recognizing the fact that it's other

podcasters listening to this and what
we can learn, but is there anything

you can share about that initial grant
from the Andrew Mellon Foundation?

And how that helped get
things up off the ground.

And does that help fund ongoing?

Is there sort of anything there
you can share with us from a

support and funding perspective?

I think you'd mentioned something else
as well, Jim, about that, but maybe

you could help unpack that for other
podcasters in higher education trying

to figure out how to fund things.

You know, we were fortunate to
receive a grant from the Mellon

Foundation that allowed us to
establish both of our positions.

But part of that was thinking creatively
about how to continue funding the studio.

And so a lot of it has been thinking about
this commercialized model and you know,

just figuring out like, institutionally,
how can we set up, you know, some sort

of like Patreon or something like that.

And so thinking about like as
part of a history department.

You know, membership is not a thing.

And so it's been, you know, spending
a lot of time thinking about how to

create standard commercial podcasting
processes inside a university setting.

And some we've been successful
with and others like George Mason

University is a state school.

And so there are just some like
weird hoops we've not been able

to jump through no matter how many
times in different ways we've tried.

And so, you know, we are still
heavily reliant on grant funding

and philanthropic gifts as a studio.

And so I don't think we have cracked
how to, you know, how to really

do this on that side of things.

Yeah, it's tough.

The Mellon funding was
instrumental seed funding.

We were very fortunate to win an
NEH grant for Worlds Turned Upside

Down and secure some philanthropic
funding for Antisemitism USA and

also another grant for that as well.

But as we're recording this, in April
of 2025, things have gone south with

the federal government in the United
States and the NEH is under siege.

You know, the NEH has long been a
generous partner for many universities

to fund projects like these, and we were
already kind of thinking about how to

change the revenue mix or the income
mix, so to speak, through other income

opportunities, other grants, other forms
of revenue like ads and things like that.

But the recent changes has
complicated those efforts.

What we have to do, at least from
our part, but I think also less

applicable to others is, even before
the recent crisis, we need to do a

better job of communicating that what
we are doing is not free to make.

It's free to consume.

History delivered right to your ears.

But that takes a lot of effort and
there are very good podcasts that

people do is on the side for fun.

But we want to be out there in the
forefront of leading the charge for

really good, intellectually rigorous,
yet accessible history podcasts

and that takes a chunk of change.

And so I think part of the strategy
going forward is really to communicate

more seriously with prospective donors
and supporters that between $5 and

$5 million is very helpful and we
will take all of that in whatever

currency you wish to send it to us.

So kind of an NPR model almost
is what you're envisioning

when you're saying that?

Absolutely.

And helping people understand the
amount of work and effort that

goes into creating these series.

'Cause they do take a lot of
work and we enjoy doing it,

but we also enjoy getting paid.

Yeah.

Funny you how that works.

Yeah.

I think universities are starting
to get smarter and they're realizing

that these are a lot of work and
either they outsource some of the

production limits to people like Neil
and I. And then have you guys come in.

Or some of them are adding the
jobs on to people that already have

them and either upping their pay.

Or that we've seen in cases where they
will hire somebody that specifically their

role is the podcast like Kate at Purdue.

That is her role as a podcast
person for the universities.

I come from broadcasting.

It's similar.

People don't realize the value in it
and a lot of people, it's like, oh,

can you not do this for us for free?

It's easy and it's not easy and it's
a lot of work and it's obviously pays

off in so much for the university.

So that being said, what are some
of the success that you've seen,

obviously besides getting donations,
what are some of the other successes

you've seen with the podcast?

Well, in terms of non-financial
success, I will just say, so

I'm a native mid-Westerner.

And our, our goal as Midwesterners
is to hide and never be seen.

And so it's profoundly confusing to me
when people come up to me at a conference

or in a public forum and as one person
did at a conference in France of all

places, she said, you're that podcast guy.

And I was like, yes, I am.

So it's, it's been very rewarding
to get the approbation of our peers.

Even if they don't necessarily agree
with the interpretation sometimes.

And that's, you know, we're in
that business of, of arguing over

what actually happened in the past.

It's been really gratifying to hear some
of their compliments, particularly from

people that I respect and would tell us
if we were doing something that was trash.

But also from the general public,
you know, just things like, I

hadn't considered Jamaica as
part of British America before.

That's something that's, that is
standard for historians of the

American Revolution, but to get people
to see beyond the 13 colonies and

to see the 26 I think is rewarding.

And the same with the
other series as well.

Um, Jeanette's got a number of stories.

Yeah, I think the audience reaction
is always, the thing that I find

most rewarding is just, you know,
with our series, Your Most Obedient

Humble Servant, in each episode, our
host Kathryn Gehred and a guest do

a deep dive into one primary source.

And so it's often a letter between
two women in the 18th century.

Frequently it's between sisters.

And so it's just so fun to listen
to people talk about the series

who are not historians who didn't
really find history class as fun or

interesting, but they enjoy the series
because it's just, it's a deep dive

into these personal correspondence.

And they talk about important things, but
then they complain about their parents

or their spouses or their children.

And so it's just, it's fun to hear
people understand how much scholars

get out of reading dead people's mail.

Helping people see how historians do
their work has been really rewarding.

And how sometimes we get to put
scholars who don't agree with each

other in conversation with each other
in episodes and just help people kinda

understand that, yeah, we're in the
business of arguing over what happened.

And it's okay when we don't agree and we
can still think about the complexities

of the past and draw conclusions.

So yeah, I think helping people
kind of understand the discipline

has been really rewarding.

That's great.

Well, thank you so much for your time.

I was thinking one last question
was maybe just sort of looking

ahead the next couple of years,
like what's up next for R2 Studios?

More shows?

You're gonna try new formats?

What are you guys thinking
as the road ahead?

That's a good question.

We have too many ideas, is the answer.

Yes.

What isn't on the horizon at this point?

That's right.

So ideally, Worlds Turned Upside
Down will have five seasons.

We're almost done with season one.

That'll take us through the end of
the Revolutionary War, and we have

at least one more season we hope to
make with Your Most Obedient Humble

Servant where I think we're gonna
dive into letters that specifically

look at parental relationships
and children in the 18th century.

We have a couple of other shows that
we're excited to make and that hopefully

we'll get to bring to people's ears soon.

Yep.

A few things on the horizon, but
you know, Finding Jane Austen, we've

announced and so that's out there.

That'll be out later this year,
starting later this year with

our colleague Anne Fertig.

A few things out there that you'll
just have to stay tuned for.

It's exciting.

Love it.

Yeah.

Jen and I have been doing this for a
couple of years now the Continuing Studies

podcast, we're coming up on our 50th
episode, and it's like peeling an onion.

Like the more that we dig into this
world of higher education podcasting,

the more we find really amazing
podcasts and networks like R2 Studios.

It's just incredible what's out there.

And how it's really, I mean, the
challenge of podcasting is the discovery

side, and I just think more and more
if we can surface some of this amazing

work that's being done in academia.

And the way I've been looking at
it lately is it's a way to break

through the rhetoric and just to
give a direct voice, if you will, for

that's happening on campuses and the
academia and the work and podcasting

is just such a great medium for it.

So congratulations on what you guys
have created so far, and you got a new,

you got at least one listener here.

But thanks for joining us today and
thanks for sharing your journey and

all the amazing work that you're doing.

I.

Yeah.

Thank you guys.

I love the fact that you guys are making
history more accessible because you guys

do all this great work, but back in the
day, only so many people would read it.

Now you're able to expand the
stuff that we maybe would not know.

Now we get to engage with it and hear
things that are really intriguing

that we wouldn't know about unless
they were super significant that they

would be brought to light on the news.

So thank you guys.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Well, that was great.

What a really interesting conversation
we had with Jeanette and Jim.

I quite enjoyed that conversation
and learning more about R2 Studios.

And just so honest and candid
specifically towards the end, they

are putting a lot of work in it and
they do need funding and I think

sometimes we don't get enough attention
of why these things need funding.

Everyone just thinks, oh, they're like
something fun or they're easy to do, but

there's a lot of work that goes, so I
love that they were so candid about it.

Yeah, I think it's really important
conversation to have right now.

As Jim mentioned when we were recording,
this is April of 2025 and yesterday was

when we just heard that Harvard really
pushed back and they're, you know, in

theory they're turning their backs on
$2 billion worth of research funding.

It is just incredible times we're in
that if you think that the funding for

all this great research is going to it's
just gonna go away or it's gonna be,

try to be controlled in a different way.

It's a really shocking time we're in.

So I, I, I agree, jen.

It was great that they were candid
sort of about their funding and I think

that's gonna be a challenge overall, but
I think we're gonna start to see this

in the podcasting space as well too.

No, I agree.

I think it's something we all have
to be mindful of and it's interesting

time and we're gonna have to figure
out different ways to get through it.

Thank you for tuning into the
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