Continuing Studies: for Higher Ed Podcasters

Ashley Worley: I hadn't planned
on being behind the mic.

I think she's really the impetus.

You saw her dragging
me into this interview.

I was like, cool.

Your mic's set up.

Let's, you know.

Dr. Catherine Ross: I really
wanted to make sure she got here.

Because honestly, if you're gonna
give advice to folks out there in

the world of college or university
broadcasting, maybe even high schools,

the companionship of the faculty to
the student is one of the big products.

She brings, you know, we
plan our ideas together.

We talk about, well, what do you
think the students would like?

Neil McPhedran: Welcome to Continuing
Studies, a podcast for higher education

podcasters to learn and get inspired.

I'm Neil McPhedran, founder of Podium
Podcast Company, and HigherEdPods.com.

Jennifer-Lee: And I'm Jennifer-Lee,
founder at JPod Creations.

Podcasting is broadcasting.

We want you to know you're not alone.

In fact, there are many of you
higher ed podcasters out there, and

we can all learn from each other.

Neil McPhedran: And a reminder, on that
note about learning from each other.

I've talked about it a couple
times in previous episodes, but our

Slack channel is live in Higher Ed
Pods, and so that's a great place

to connect with other podcasters.

All you need to do is become a
member of Higher Ed Pods, so in

the top right corner, just hit
that and sign up, become a member.

Really easy, really quick.

And then through that you'll get your
invitation to join the Slack channel.

We'd love to have you there.

Jennifer-Lee: It's a great place to be.

I'm really enjoying a lot of the
conversations with the other podcasters.

Like we were talking about
monetization the other day.

Because sometimes as podcasters
you feel a little lonely.

So it's a great resource, I think.

And so get in there and let's have
some more amazing discussions.

Neil McPhedran: Love it.

Yeah.

And swaps.

That's another one that's come up.

Promo swaps.

So if you're looking to connect with
other higher ed podcasters and do

something like that, that is the place,
and we're gonna start to really focus

in on that coming back to school.

So today, Jen, in this episode,
we are chatting with Dr. Ross

from the Ask Dr. Ross Show.

And we had a fantastic conversation.

Catherine Ross is the Professor of
English at University of Texas at Tyler.

Dr. Ross teaches British literature,
and she launched her podcast Ask Dr.

Ross a couple of years ago, and they
are just going into their next season,

starting right around now, actually.

And it's a really super interesting
podcast where they answer the

important and nagging questions
parents and potential college

students raise about higher education.

So topics they've covered off include
things like preparing for college,

avoiding student debt, secrets of
good grades, so on and so forth.

Dr. Ross is the host.

She has a co-host as well, and
the co-host is Ashley Worley.

She's an honors in mass communications
student and the producer as

well of Ask Dr. Ross podcast.

Jennifer-Lee: She hops on the
podcast as well, which we thought

was really neat, because you
can really see how much Dr. Ross

appreciates having Ashley on her team.

And she really wants everyone to know,
like even when we contacted them for

an interview, that Ashley has really
brought the podcast to a new level.

I love seeing that dynamic between
teacher and student because sometimes

I think as students, we're kind of
scared of our professors a little bit.

So I love the bond that they have and it
really rings through in their podcast.

Neil McPhedran: Yes, absolutely.

Yeah, it was great.

And actually it was interesting
'cause at first we were going to

just be interviewing Dr. Ross.

And then quickly early on into the
interview, Ashley was there in the

background and she pulled Ashley in.

And then Ashley's sort of part
of the interview as well too, so.

Which I really liked, Jen, how that
worked out, actually, in the end.

And in retrospect, we probably should
have just sort of said in the beginning,

let's interview them both together.

But I love how it all worked out,
where we interviewed them both and

kind of indicative, I would say,
of the relationship they have.

Let's get into it.

Dr. Ross, it's great to have you here.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, I'm happy to
see you all and talk with you again.

Jennifer-Lee: We actually met Dr. Ross,
usually Neil and I meet the people

that we interview first time here,
virtually, and we got to meet Dr. Ross

at our first ever Higher Ed PodCon.

So we were like, you have
to be on our podcast.

So it was really nice to finally like
meet someone face-to-face instead

of just writing a cold email and be
like, you don't know who we are, but

we'd love you to come on our podcast.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

Well, I do know who you are and I'm
happy to be here, so don't worry.

Jennifer-Lee: Don't worry.

There we go.

Neil McPhedran: That's great.

That's awesome.

So, we're calling you Dr. Ross, because
that's the name of your podcast.

So I feel like I can't call you anything
else actually, when we talk to you here.

So Ask Dr.

Dr. Catherine Ross: You're welcome
to call me Catherine if you want.

Neil McPhedran: Okay.

But I love the ring to Dr. Ross.

So the podcast, Ask Dr. Ross,
maybe you could just tell us a

little bit about the podcast and
the reason that you launched it?

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, okay, so I'm in
the College of Arts and Sciences at the

University of Texas at Tyler, and we were
given the opportunity to purchase a public

radio station about three years ago.

Everybody was very excited about it.

And the dean, who was a friend
of mine, came to me and said,

we are gonna need content.

I want you to start a podcast
about going to college.

And I said, okay.

It sounds like fun.

I've never done it before.

And originally we have a broadcast
professor here who did television,

and she seemed to think she
could get me launched okay.

Well, honestly, it took
having a student like Ashley.

My first producer was another
student who was very experienced

with the machinery to do it.

But anyway, Neil Gray asked me, Dean
Gray asked me to talk about college

life, and I was thrilled to do that,
because one of my big concerns right

now about higher education is a lot
of people have a really skewed idea

of what it's like and what we do, and
there's a lot of bad press out there.

And I thought, well, I think
we can tell a better story.

The other thing too though, about it
was that I, I didn't pick the title.

I did not want to have my name in
it, but the folks on the team who

were managing the radio station liked
that title, and so, there you go.

And, but anyway, Ask Dr. Ross
does seem to work just fine.

Neil McPhedran: Got a great ring to it.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

Jennifer-Lee: It sounds like, I have
to say because like growing up here

in Canada, and I think they had some
in America, in America as well, but

it seems very like old school radio
program, like, Dr. Ross where you

call in for your medical questions.

Like, I like it.

Neil McPhedran: Calling in
for your college questions.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennifer-Lee: A little spin.

Yeah.

Like college.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Right.

Right.

Well, and it also gave
us a kind of a hook.

So what is the question for this day?

You know, and sometimes we actually
get students who call in, although

not as many as we would've liked.

In fact, Ashley has to plant questions
with some of her classmates sometimes.

Neil McPhedran: We won't tell anyone.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

But we knew that there were questions
we wanted to answer, so, there you go.

Jennifer-Lee: And can you tell us,
she's sitting in the room and we've

met her and she's lovely, and we
know that she's your driving force.

Can you tell us a little bit
more about Ashley and her role?

Dr. Catherine Ross: Sure.

Well, the first year I had a young
man who was actually the editor of

our newspaper and did a lot of digital
things and he was, what I said in my

talk there, he said he was real hot,
fast, zippy kind of a fella and he kind

of oftentimes outpaced me, you know, the
old school lady here, but he moved on

and I was desperate to get a new person.

And Ashley, who is an honors student in
our College of Arts and Sciences, and

who is also, uh, communications major and
does her own movies, what else do you do?

Ashley Worley: Oh, I write and
just stuff in my free time.

I write, like to write books.

I do a little bit of
illustration just for fun.

And mostly short films though.

Dr. Catherine Ross: But she's very
technical and I am very untechnical,

and so Ashley originally volunteered
to do it just for the experience.

After about three or four months, I
was able to get the dean to pay her.

So it's now her college job and
boy does she take it seriously.

Jennifer-Lee: I love the fact that, this
is something Neil and I are learning

on the podcast, beyond just having
listens in college and university

podcasts, but they're creating
different roles within the institutions.

And when I went back to university,
some of the college jobs were like

working in the cafeteria, working at
the student union building and stuff.

But it's neat that a lot of them are
having these jobs that are gonna be

things that you could potentially
go to work for later in life.

So I always find interesting that
when Neil and I look at university

podcasting, it's beyond the microphone.

People don't realize
the power of podcasting.

It's not just people talking
and giving awareness.

It's creating other jobs and
opportunities for people.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, exactly.

In fact, as soon as I got back from
the conference, I went straight

to the dean and, because everybody
was talking about student interns.

And Ashley worked so hard, there are
days when I wonder if I'm, you know, the

abusive employer that, the stuff she does.

So I anticipate, especially as we add
more podcasts, the goal of this, now, I

just have to tell you, the sad story is
we ended up selling our radio station.

There were a number of
sort of political issues.

'Cause we were originally
using some national public

radio kinds of programming.

And finally it just got to be too thorny.

So now, however, we have all this
equipment, and the job of the

communications department is to
start growing the podcasting program.

Now, it's interesting, I'm not in
communications, I'm in English.

I'm an English professor, but I guess
the good news is I'm a pretty good voice

for this, and apparently people wanna
ask me questions, so I'm ready to answer.

Neil McPhedran: That's great.

So you're in between seasons right
now, so you'll have another season

starting as school comes back then?

Dr. Catherine Ross: Correct.

Correct.

And we've already got four
episodes ready and loaded.

Ashley Worley: We actually,
ours is dropping today.

The first episode of
season three drops today.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

Oh wow.

Excellent.

That's exciting.

So, coincide with the beginning of
the school year, so that's great, so.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Right.

There, it was, the first one is like ten,
ten bits of advice from Ashley and Dr.

Ross about how to start out well in the
college year, I think is what it's called.

Something like that.

Neil McPhedran: That's great.

So the audience then, for the podcast
is, I was interested, actually,

you called out, it's for family
and prospective students, and

obviously existing students as well.

That, that I thought, I like that
it's very focused on new students and

prospective students, basically, but not
just the students, the larger family,

which is kind of part of decision
making process, et cetera, I guess.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, yeah.

Well we, you know, the universities,
all universities and ours is like

this with always bringing people in.

We have the top twenty-five percent
graduates of the local high schools.

They bring them in and take them
through and show them what UT Tyler's

like, and parents come with them.

Let's face it, the parents
are mostly paying for it.

Although, many of our students
are working at least halftime.

Again, this comes back to my wanting to
tell the story better so people know.

One of the first things that high school
students seem to learn is that they think

all professors are really terrifying and
hate you and want to force you to fail.

And my students will say, you are
really different than what the high

school teachers told us you were like.

And that's a part of it.

But also the audience out there of
adults who are suspicious about higher

education, I want them to hear how
hard we work to be inviting and help

students belong and feel connected.

Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, it's so interesting
about all the misconceptions

that happen in high school.

I would also say too, that sometimes,
and it depends where you are, is I just

feel in general, and I don't know what
country does it better, but I feel like

sometimes high school doesn't prepare you
enough either for college or university.

Dr. Catherine Ross: You know, Jen,
I'm really glad you said that.

In fact, I recently wrote an article
with a friend of mine who's a principal

of a high school, who's also an
English teacher, about this disconnect

between high schools and colleges.

And you know, the first thing I noticed
when I went back to grad school, I'd been

teaching at a boys preparatory school in
Dallas before I went back to grad school.

And I couldn't believe how different the
critical work in English literature was

at the university, 'cause of course it
was cutting edge compared to what we were

teaching our high school students to do.

And I thought, oh my god,
you know, this is not good.

These parents are paying lots of
money to write a kind of essay

that was popular fifteen years ago.

And I think that's one of the
things that happens a lot.

High school teachers, you know, they're
remembering college from their days

and there's not always that connection.

And of course, I think high school
teachers are often anxious about

interfacing with us as well.

So I would like, one of my big goals in
the coming years, is to reach out to more

and more high schools, to the students,
the teachers, the parents, and to help

them see how different college really is.

It's friendlier.

The work is very different.

The lifestyle is different.

And, you know, nothing can prepare
you for that, no matter, I dunno

if it's big in Canada, but in the
US a lot of students are taking

what they call dual credit courses.

And these are college level courses,
but a lot of times they're taking

'em as a fourteen or fifteen year old
student and they're not getting the

experience of attending classes twice
a week for an hour and twenty minutes.

And having to manage their own time
and figure out how to use the library

in a new way, things like that.

Jennifer-Lee: Well, there's a
big shift that happens from going

from, well, even high school, even
if you don't end up going into

post-secondary education right away.

It's very different because I remember
thinking it's like you go, you know,

it's very cliquey in university.

The teachers kind of treat you differently
and then, all of a sudden, this thing

you've been doing forever, you leave
it and it's like you're an adult and

everyone acts differently around you.

Like it's way different.

It's like, okay, you gotta get a job.

Pay your bills.

It's like everyone starts
back at the same level.

I remember going to college and it's
like everything's out the window now.

It is a very different feeling.

Everyone treats you like an adult.

No one's treating you with like,
oh, you're a high school student.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, you know, one of the series we're
working on is I took some students

from their freshman year in October
and interviewed them, and then we

interviewed them again in February
and we just interviewed him again.

The first one is, oh, you know, I
was so anxious about the professors

and I didn't know what advising
was and all these sort of things.

Now they're very cool.

They've got it down.

One of 'em has already become a resident
advisor and he's grown a mustache

and he looks like a real grownup
and, but he also moves with greater

assurance and he changed his major.

He, he didn't know you could do that.

And of course, actually in the
conversation that we had from the very

first interview, I'm sure I talked about
that because I've experienced that a

lot with students, is they come and
think, oh, I wanna be an accountant, I

wanna be a lawyer, I wanna be a doctor.

And they take a philosophy class and
they go, oh my god, that's so different.

Or they take a psychology class
or an English class and learn that

there's something else they can do.

The other thing that I think a lot of
students don't realize is the name of

your major doesn't mean that's what
you'll end up doing in life, you know.

That there's skills, especially with
like an English major or philosophy

major, which are in our college, you
know, what job do you get with that.

Well, you get about twenty-seven
different kinds of jobs, because

of the soft skills you learn about
critical thinking and communicating and

doing research and solving problems.

And that's a big change for a lot
of students is that they come to

college thinking they're gonna prepare
to be a certain kind of worker.

And what they learn is that, boy, that's
four years down the line, you've got

some other things to learn how to do.

Would you agree with that, Ashley?

Ashley Worley: Yeah.

I'd say so.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, now
Ashley didn't go to a high school.

She is a product of homeschooling,
which I think is part of the reason

why she's so good at what she does,
because she's a real self-starter.

And a lot of the students that are not
homeschooled, that have gone to our public

high schools, and I don't mean to say
anything ugly about our high schools, but

they're more rigid and I think students
don't have quite as much freedom the way

Ashley had to sort of develop her skills.

So yeah, going back to this, I
really love the idea of parents of

high school students, high school
students, teachers in high schools,

for them to be part of our audience.

Neil McPhedran: That's great.

I love how you're tackling this
challenge, as we just described here.

Why do you think podcasting is
such a, a good medium to do this?

Like what have you sort of over the
last couple of years doing this,

I'm sure you've seen some change.

It started as a radio show,
which is really interesting.

I like to talk a little bit more
about that, but just podcasting

overall, like why do you think it's
a good channel medium for this?

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, for one
thing we know it's in that social

media area that everybody uses now.

Someone said the great thing about
podcasting, it's something for your

ears to do when your eyes are busy.

Neil McPhedran: I like that.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

It's a great, it's a great line, isn't it?

Yeah.

Neil McPhedran: Yes.

I'm gonna use it.

Dr. Catherine Ross: And we also, by
the way, use that as an excuse to

not worry about having to do video
of our program, because whereas there

may be some folks who wanna see what
we look like and may be surprised

the way we look, given our voices.

But anyway, yeah, I, I really think that
there's, well, I see students on their

phones all day long, you know, with
earphones or earbuds, and so there's that.

It's just the way now, Ashley, would
you agree that, that it's just so

regularly used now by kids, by students?

Ashley Worley: I think so, and I think
the big advantage to trying to spread

any kind of a message, but also this
one through podcasting specifically,

is just because of how accessible
it is, like she was talking about.

I know that there's a lot of entertainment
focus in podcasting, as far as I can

see, but using it also for education or
having the advantage of this platform

where you can blend the entertainment
aspects and the educational material.

It makes it really easy and a
more digestible way of delivering

that to students, I think.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah.

Another thing we started doing is
we started shortening our podcast.

We originally were doing, we would
interview for an hour and a half and we're

cutting it back to twenty-five minutes.

'Cause I think that's
more accessible also.

It's part of the story, isn't it?

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

That's great.

Jennifer-Lee: There's a stat recently,
they said most podcasts should be

between twenty to forty minutes.

'Cause that's what the majority of
people are listening to at the moment.

I truly believe content dictates.

And I think you could have a
shorter podcast or a longer

podcast depending on what you have.

And it's interesting to go to
the, you were talking about

accessibility and stuff.

There was a stat that I, I would like
to find a newer stat on it, but a few

years ago they said, most people listen
to a podcast to learn something new.

And that was eighty-five percent
of the population for podcasting.

So it's like, yes, entertainment's there,
but most people are listening to learn.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and you know,
one of the things I like about what

Ashley does is, you know, she posts
with description of what's coming.

And so people know what
they're listening to.

We try to make a title that is
clear about what you will learn.

If you wanna learn this one,
this is the one to learn from.

Jennifer-Lee: I was gonna say,
speaking of learning something

new, I just had a question about
this, 'cause it was interesting.

I heard it yesterday.

I was in a coffee shop and just
ironically, two teachers were

talking about using AI in English
and written papers, usuing Grammarly,

and how the students, it's changing
the way that they write and they

don't have those hardcore skills of
learning English in a proper way.

So I was just wondering, because obviously
you're in the post-secondary space, maybe

it's episode for your next season, are
you gonna do anything on how to prepare

to use AI properly when you're a student?

Dr. Catherine Ross: I just
finished sitting in for two days

on the Harvard Open AI Summit.

And heard the fellow from Princeton
who, you know, it was that Princeton

under his work with his grad
students that created ChatGPT.

And he gave a very interesting talk
about what he thinks AI is going

to do, and then different workshops
about where we're gonna take it.

I'm actually an early adopter.

I've been using it ever since I
started seeing what it could do.

And it's my view that it will
become as common in everybody's

use as a calculator is.

And I think one of the ways it's gonna
do, and this is one of the areas that

worries me, is it will write for you.

And I know a, one of the things that came
out in this workshop yesterday, with all

these folks from Harvard and Cambridge and
Stanford and MIT, was that a lot of people

use it regularly to compose their emails.

And I will admit to having taken an email
that I was, you know, I remember one of

them, I was really mad at my students for
doing something and I composed this email.

I thought, oh, if I send that,
that's gonna really tick 'em off

and it will not be successful.

So I sent it through AI and it made
it much better, you know, so that

there's good reason to do that.

Although the big worry for teachers
of English is that students will not

learn how to write and think through.

The thing I like about AI is that
it predicts and it surveys what

is out there in general usage.

One of the hardest things for students
to learn how to write is to write

like more sophisticated writers write.

And so that's really what AI does
when you ask it to write something,

it will pull on the sort of common
vernacular, which is usually a much more

sophisticated level than high school
students and college students are used to.

Yes, there's a big issue
about using it ethically.

It's biased, and they pointed that out in
one of the workshops, how biased it could

be, kind of western white world bias.

But it's ubiquitous already and
it's going to be a part of our life.

And so I'm teaching, I have all my
students take their first assignment

and before they write it themselves,
ask AI to write it and then say,

okay, now, don't look at that.

Put that aside.

And now you write it.

And we'll compare them, so they can see.

But yeah, it's gonna be a big problem.

And you know, it's interesting.

Some folks are saying, no AI, period.

It's a terrible thing.

I think that's a big mistake.

Neil McPhedran: Agreed.

You gotta, I think you're right.

It's a good way to look at it.

It's gonna be ubiquitous
like the calculator is.

There was a lot of pushback
over that, wasn't there.

I wasn't around we, we
weren't around then.

But I mean, I've read
about that, so, yeah.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well I do
think, you know, the fear is that

people will not learn how to do
the things that AI does for them.

And that's gonna be my argument to them
is that, yes, AI will do it for you,

but you need to be able to do it too
and be able to also make it your own.

Because, so for example, this morning I
was writing an email to the provost about

a problem I have with a funding for my
fellowship and I wrote two versions on

my own and then I ran it through ChatGPT
and I still like mine better, you know?

But I do think it can help students see
the difference between a kind of clunky,

not very elegantly phrased sentence,
and a more elevated level of sentence

structure that they can start imitating.

Jennifer-Lee: See, this is gonna
be like a four part podcast

episode on the Dr. Ross show.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well,
let me add one other thing.

I'm part of a, the American College
University Association has got a

national institute on AI this, starting
this month, and I'm part of that.

There're four of us at UT Tyler.

I've been asked to be part of that.

So I'll be somebody you
can consult about AI.

Because I'm really looking forward
to what this big consortium

is gonna be able to teach me.

Neil McPhedran: I am going to do a plug
here for another podcast that we work

with which is called Normal Curves.

And it's two statistics professors
that have just launched a podcast.

It's a really good podcast.

Their episode this past Monday, so if
you're listening to this, that would

be sort of August 12th basically that
dropped, is there's the MIT study

that came out about a month ago that
was basically saying, your brain

is mush on AI and it's ruining our
brains and our critical thinking.

They rip the paper apart 'cause it's
actually really bad science of the paper.

So that's not a true proposition.

But anyway, listen to the episode.

It's really good.

It's super interesting.

Dr. Catherine Ross: I will,
I'm glad to know that.

Neil McPhedran: Normal, normal curves.

I, I wanna just circle back to the
show though, because I like how you've

anchored everything in a question.

And back to your point about
the title, you're totally right.

You guys do a good job with that.

So instead of tackling a theme and
doing an episode about a theme, you're

still doing that, but you've brought
it to a question to start with.

I like that format a lot.

You, maybe just sort of, for someone
who's thinking about tackling the same

problem or coming up with a show for
family and students like you have.

Am I right about anchoring
it in a question?

It seems like a really good strategy.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, I, we kind
of fell into it to be honest, but it

actually fits with a kind of basic
teaching principle, which is that

the really best way to focus a course
is to have it focus on questions.

Big questions.

Rather than saying, I'm
gonna tell you this.

Let me ask you a question.

You know, what makes
for a meaningful life?

What makes a really effective novel?

Why do people go to war?

I mean, I'm making really big
ones there, but you can make

them more and more nuanced.

And when you ask a question,
then you're inviting people in.

Part of my job is to answer the question,
but also to get other people to answer it.

So, for example, one of the early
ones with my first producer,

Nathan, who was very upset about
politics, and so I brought in

the political science professor.

And he was able to, you know,
why is it so crazy right now?

Professor Bryant could
talk to him about that.

Did the same thing with, he was very
upset about the economic situation.

I brought in an economics professor
and she was able to explain to

him about the ebb and flow of
economies and things like that.

I don't think he was convinced
at all, but we gave him the

opportunity to ask his questions.

Jennifer-Lee: I think a lot of
higher ed could really use yours

as an example to take a question
and build a topic around it.

Because I think a lot of the times when
people, and this goes for any podcasters,

a lot of times when people are doing a
podcast, specifically when it's related to

an institution or a business or a brand,
they try to think of titles and topics

that are not necessarily searchable, or
things that people are inquiring about.

Or they have a great topic, but then
they try to do a title that's too sexy

and they like spend like twenty minutes
trying to crack down on the title, and

it's like, no, just tell me what it is.

Am I gonna learn how to do math?

Because that's what you gotta
remember when I'm, I am the listener,

I'm searching for these topics.

I wanna know why.

Like, I love your topics.

Like they're so easy.

And now I know that Ashley was the
inspiration probably for this, but how

can homeschoolers prepare for college?

Very straightforward.

I know what I'm gonna get.

Ashley, did she do a good job on that one?

Ashley Worley: I think
it was a fun episode.

We had several of my friends, one of
whom I was at the same homeschool co-op

with for college prep in high school.

We all got to come and have a
conversation about that together.

But yeah, I think the questions do
help with keeping on a topic and making

sure that we're giving something very
practical and that's useful to the

audience member, whoever they might be.

Dr. Catherine Ross: And also in line
with this notion of I want to dispel

misconceptions about higher education.

When I got ready to introduce Ashley
at the PodCon in our workshop,

she asked me not to identify
her as a homeschooled student.

And the reason is that there's
a lot of negativity about that.

And, you know, she doesn't come from
the fringe types of folks who do

homeschooling, but she was afraid that
that would give the wrong impression.

And once you met her, you knew,
I mean, and my god, this girl has

done, her work ethic is unbelievable.

And I'll add this, when we went to the
conference, her parents came with us.

And I got to meet her parents
and now I know why she's so good,

'cause they're just wonderful.

Her father was actually an actor
in New York, in LA for a while.

Before we did our presentation,
we went up to their hotel room and

said, would you all listen to us
and make sure we got this right?

And what was really charming is
her father says, well, I didn't

expect it to be that good.

You know, I've got a really high
standard and, and that really

lifted our wings because we
weren't sure how it come across.

So anyway, yeah, I think that whenever
we can answer questions and help

people out of confusion, I mean,
that's what my whole job is as a

professor, that's what I'm always doing.

You know, you read a novel and, you
know, or this chapter, and why did that

character do that ridiculous thing?

Or why did the writer write it that way?

And what does this mean?

And so explaining all of
that is sort of what I do.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah,
I think it's excellent.

I mean, when you first introduced
yourself and your show, the title and

your name, it works well together and
I got an idea what the show was, and

so it's very memorable and I like it.

You mentioned a few minutes ago in
our conversation when you came back

from PodCon, you went to the dean and
you talked about sort of opening up

the aperture on podcasting overall,
and now with the change in the radio

station and the equipment or whatever.

Is there anything you can sort
of give us insight into there?

I think that's interesting.

Where are you guys going with
podcasting then in general?

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and again,
this is a little tricky because I'm

in the English department and he's
tasked the communications department

with developing things, but I think
they look at my podcast as sort

of a model for people to follow.

We now have a professor, in
fact, I passed out her cards.

It's called Averse Reaction.

It's one of the English
professors, she's an Americanist.

It's about verse and poetry.

Uh, and so she did that and
it's, as you say, kind of an

evergreen freestanding thing.

The professor who came to talk about
politics is working on a political,

and although honestly, right now
with the political situation in

the state of Texas, I'm not sure
he's gonna do that for a while.

Although I would love for him to do it
because he's so sensible and reasoned.

It would be really nice to have somebody
talk about politics who isn't, you

know, real red or real blue and, you
know, kind of over the top angry.

Neil McPhedran: We need way more
sensibility and reasonability, please.

Yes.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Right.

But to go back to your question, the
dean has charged the department and one

of the people, when we lost the radio
station, several employees had to go too.

But we did keep the director of that
who, her name is Lori Allen, and she

is a very, very fine public speaker.

She's got all these awards for that.

There's some sort of group she belongs to.

And she was a television news reader
in Dallas and I think in Colorado,

and so she's remained on and so she's
the person who we report to now,

and that will be her job soon is to
start, you know, building that out.

But it'll be kind of up to the faculty
and then what students they can recruit.

Of course, I wanted the dean to
understand that we could make a good

argument for students using it as
professional line item on their resumes.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

Yeah.

Dr. Catherine Ross: And you know
the folks at Stanford, your keynote

speaker, he talked about that.

He's got all sorts of volunteers.

Yeah.

Neil McPhedran: Yep.

Matt has, you know, he gets approached
for interns, like a lot of professors

do, but he puts them to work on the show.

And then to your point, they
use that as part of their CV.

They're doing a real job on a
show that they can point to.

It's everywhere, right?

So I completely agree with you.

It's not just a tool for communicating,
but it's also a platform for, you

know, your show as a prime example for
students to get real experience and

have a real job in the in, in your case.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and
I think Ashley will tell you

that she has a lot of fun.

Ashley Worley: Yeah, it's fun and I
mean, honestly, when do you get the

opportunity to get paid to do all this
kinds of just straight up fun stuff.

Like you can talk to all these
various kinds of people and then

listen back to the conversations.

I find editing fun.

I'm a mass comm student, and so
that's a big part of what I do.

So yeah, it was a crazy
amazing opportunity when this

became like a paid position.

Because I know also a lot of podcasts
just start with a microphone and a laptop

in somebody's bedroom, and you have
to work at it for a long time before

that ever becomes a paid opportunity.

So I felt very, very lucky.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Yeah, I'm not sure
how many paid opportunities we'll have.

The dean was happy with the idea
on the one hand of offering it as a

volunteer opportunity, but I think for
Ashley, starting out as a volunteer

and then getting good at it, we were
able to move it into a paid position.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah, yeah.

I think it's great that
she's part of the show.

I think it's great that you have
this, the, the, you know, you

have a co-host that's a student.

'Cause I think that lends probably a
lot of credibility to the perspective,

like the high school students
or the new students to hear the

co-host is, is a student too, right?

So I think that's great,
that's a great dynamic.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Well, and if you
listen to the episode just dropped

and the one after that, we did a
tip, there are two tip episodes.

The second one is about
tips on how to make friends.

We had so much fun doing 'em,
and I remember after, Ashley

will edit it and throw it back
to me and say, what do you think?

And I'll say, well, let's cut
this out and dah, dah, dah, dah.

I was, I really enjoyed it.

You know, sometimes when I'm listening to
it after we've already done, it's kinda

like, okay, well that's pretty good.

Actually I got kind of a
kick out of listening to it.

I felt like we've really, over
the year we've really developed

a rapport that I enjoy very much.

And I will add going to the PodCon
conference was part of that because

we had such a good time there
and you know, eating breakfast

with her parents was a hoot.

I must tell you, you should
all meet her parents.

Ashley Worley: I hadn't planned
on being behind the mic.

I think she's really the impetus.

You saw her dragging
me into this interview.

I was like, cool, your mic's set up.

Let's, you know.

Neil McPhedran: It's great.

I love it.

I love how this has ended up.

It's perfect.

It's really good.

Dr. Catherine Ross: I told
her I needed her to set up.

I didn't use Squadcast, I had to borrow
a mic from our digital design studio,

and I told her all that, but I really
wanted to make sure she got here because

honestly, if you're gonna give advice to
folks out there in the world of college or

university broadcasting, maybe even high
schools, the companionship of the faculty

to the student is one of the big products.

But she brings, you know,
we plan our ideas together.

We talk about, well, what do you
think the students would like?

She brought up, we have a thing called
rec sports and also eSports, and I didn't

know anything about eSports, and so
we've got a episode on both of those.

Neil McPhedran: Great.

My son's a big gamer, so I
understand the eSports thing.

Dr. Catherine Ross: Oh, do you?

Neil McPhedran: There you go.

So, well, it's been fantastic to chat
with both of you today and thank you so

much for sharing a few things with us.

Can I leave you with a tip for your
YouTube channel, and maybe this

is for other listeners out there?

Dr. Catherine Ross:
Absolutely, absolutely.

Neil McPhedran: About six months
ago, they, YouTube provided the

ability to actually designate,
there's a podcast tab, so you're

basically calling your show a podcast.

You're telling YouTube it's a podcast and
it categorizes it differently, and then it

puts the podcast in the tab where's shorts
and videos and everything in the tab.

Actually adds it as a podcast in there.

So then the algorithms start to
recognize it as a podcast and then

put it in the mix of podcast shows.

What it does immediately is it
just sort of signals something very

differently to YouTube as well.

YouTube is actually two apps, right?

It's the main app, which we're all
familiar with, and then there's a

billion people use YouTube music,
which is the competitor to Spotify,

so it's especially important for that.

Because then they have a full
podcast section in that app, and then

your show starts to index in that.

Right now, it's not indexing
in the podcast component,

although it's a podcast.

Dr. Catherine Ross: That's great.

We, as soon as we get off of this,
we're gonna fix that right now.

Neil McPhedran: That's right.

You know what?

This is, we'll put in our show notes,
there's a really good link to YouTube

of setting up a podcast in YouTube.

We'll make sure we, for listeners, we'll
make sure we put that in the show notes.

Ashley Worley: Great.

Neil McPhedran: Wonderful
to have you guys.

Thank you so much for joining us.

Dr. Catherine Ross: It
was fun talking to you.

Thank you.

See you again.

Neil McPhedran: Jen.

Loved that.

Loved our conversation.

I wish she was my professor when I
was at university taking English,

struggling through English.

I think she would've been the
kind of the professor I would've

wanted to have learned from.

Yeah, really, really
enjoyed that conversation.

Learned a lot.

And there is some really, just as we
said kind of off the top, and as I

think you've probably heard through the
interview, like what a dynamic that Dr.

Ross and Ashley have, and obviously that
just makes the show that much better.

Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and I love that.

You can just see the compliment each
other so perfectly, so it was great.

And we knew that from the start.

When you and I met them the night before
the PodCon show when we did our little

mixer, just so kind and lovely energy.

Neil McPhedran: Yeah.

I think it's just a great podcast theme.

A love the name of it as we talked about.

I think it's a useful resource for
perspective students, not necessarily

going to the University of Texas, but I
also think it could be the kind of podcast

that other professors, students, whatnot,
could mimic for their schools as well,

if you really wanna get into it being
more specific about the school itself.

So I think there's a lot of
really cool things that we as

higher education podcasters could
learn from the ask Dr. Ross show.

Jennifer-Lee: Agree.

It's not limited, just there.

So these things are things that
other students need to know.

Like I want to know what is
the secret to good grades.

I feel like that's an amazing topic.

Neil McPhedran: You're done.

You already did university.

Jennifer-Lee: I did, but I wish
I knew that back in the day.

Anyway, on that note, thank you for tuning
into the Continuing Studies podcast, a

podcast for higher education podcasters.

We hope you found this episode
informative and inspiring.

If you enjoyed the show, we encourage
you to follow and subscribe to the

podcast on your preferred platform,
so you'll never miss an episode.

But if you found this episode
particularly valuable, please consider

sharing it with your friends and
colleagues who also might be interested

in a higher education podcast.

We also invite you to join your peers on
HigherEdPods.com, where you can connect

with other podcasters in higher education
and learn from others in the field.

Thank you for being part of our community.

We look forward to continuing to bring
you valuable insights and conversations

around higher education podcasts.

See you in the next episode.