UCW: Podcasting as Curriculum
[00:00:00] Jennifer-Lee: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters. In each episode, we talk to a university podcaster to ask some questions, get answers, and share tips and ideas about higher education podcasting.
[00:00:16] Hi, I'm Jennifer-Lee. I'm a radio broadcaster and a podcaster.
[00:00:20] Neil McPhedran: And I'm Neil McPhedran. I've come to podcasting after 25 years in the digital agency world. Together we've hosted, executive produced, and launched, seven, and counting, higher education podcasts.
[00:00:32] Please remember to follow Continuing Studies in your listening app of choice and drop us a rating and or review, we'd love to hear your feedback. While you're at it, also join the University Podcaster Network on LinkedIn.
[00:00:44] Jennifer-Lee: So, I'm really excited to interview these next two people and I've been working with them for almost two years. So, we have Dr. Gelareh Farhadian and Dave Keighron, and they are part of University Canada West. And they've been doing this podcast, 'Innovation Fuel' before I met them, and it is a great private school if you haven't checked it out. They have a ton of MBA programs, which they're really known for, and not only that, they have some undergraduate programs as well, usually their focuses are on business administration, commerce, and related fields, and their podcast reflects that.
[00:01:19] So what I really love about their podcast is that it sets up their brand really well. Because they are known for business, especially here in Vancouver, and they interview a lot [00:01:30] of entrepreneurs that not necessarily went to school, but they're big entrepreneurs around the world and they have some really engaging conversations. Everything from new and latest cancer treatments to 3D printing, to even recently talking about the history of Fluevog shoes. I'm really excited to interview them, so let's get started.
[00:01:57] I have been working with you guys for a while now. I just realized it's been like over a year. So I know you guys, but the lovely people don't know you. Can you tell us about who you are, your involvement with, university of Canada West? Yeah, we'll start there. 'cause this is a lot of questions.
[00:02:11] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: I'm Gelareh Farhadian, department chair of marketing, strategy, and entrepreneurship at University Canada West. I am with UCW from April 2019, and that's all. I think that's, if you want to know about why we started having a podcast, I will give it to Dave because it was his idea.
[00:02:33] Dave Keighron: Aw, thanks Gelareh. Yeah, you know something, great minds come together in around collaboration. So, I am Dave Keighron. I am professor of marketing, entrepreneurship, and innovation. I teach at multiple institutions, including UCW, University Canada West, and I am an innovator around the educational element. I'm trying to change the way we teach, the way we involve students in what we do, in converting them from a student to a learner, and [00:03:00] creating a learner centered environment where we give them more application, more application. So, I guess that is me.
[00:03:05] Jennifer-Lee: And I know you guys alluded to a little bit, but why did you start the podcast? Because I think you have like a futuristic concept, which I think a lot of people are going to start doing, and I could use it in a lot of the clients that I do, that aren't in the educational space.
[00:03:18] Dave Keighron: When Gelareh and I set out on this journey to the 'Innovation Field' podcast, we both struggled with the idea of, how do we get more students with more problems in the classroom, that are actually applicable to them and their [00:03:30] future. The challenge that we see out there, is a lot of business cases are written on big organizations, and they really represent what the students are going to do after graduation. A lot of what we do in Canada, for an example, 98% of GDP in Canada is all based on the backs of small- medium sized businesses.
[00:03:44] So we're dealing with small, medium sized challenges in the market, and how are students being exposed to those elements and what are some of the challenges. Either from a startup, to scale up, or to those elements. And that kind of led us down the path of how do we get more of that conversation happening? How do we get more of those individuals that are [00:04:00] experiencing some of these challenges and bringing them into a conversation and then creating those relevant business cases that we can then bring back into our courses so students can get real application. And we also wanted to make it that we just didn't want to do the same old, same old. We wanted to have fresh, fresh ideas in creating and also, in exchange what we learned from it as we went through this prototyping experience, as we went through these journeys, we found a lot of things that came out of it. So, a lot of things that came out of it.
[00:04:25] We started doing internships and capstones from these things. We started to build further relationships with the business community around us. Not only were we helping solve those problems with our students in the classroom through the courses, but we then it brought that further in giving more students more experiences and more elements from that.
[00:04:41] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: Yeah, and also from my perspective, as an immigrant, for me, it's very important to help a student, immigrant student, international student, to have a network. When you come to a new country, not only you have to learn a lot, but also you need to have a network. And also you need to know that how the system's working. What is the ecosystem here?
[00:05:03] If I want to start my business, where I have to go, who should I talk to? How should I establish my business? What is the tax here? So those are the questions that sometimes you cannot find in the classrooms, but when you listen to the business owners, you will understand, and you can connect the dots and see how the system is working.
[00:05:20] Also, big part is networking. So when you bring a guest from local business in the podcast, and then faculty can bring those guests to the classroom as a guest speakers or client, this student get a network and they will understand. So, if the students, if they, have they built a good relationship with each other, they can move forward, they can get a job offer, or so, the client or guest can introduce to someone else.
[00:05:46] That was very important for me as an immigrant because that is the biggest part, biggest challenges for international students, to find a real right, a right network to connect with. And make sure put the spotlight on [00:06:00] my students and show them how great they are by connecting them to real local business owners. When they have to understand the real business here, it's maybe different from the home country, and how they can solve it and how they can show competency and talents to the client, local clients.
[00:06:19] Neil McPhedran: That is, uh, both really interesting points. You'd mentioned there was a prototyping process to your podcast. Can you just sort of pull that apart a little bit for us? I think a lot of us kind of like, hey, we're going to launch a podcast, and we [00:06:30] just sort of jump in and we go, this is what it's going to be, and this is who it's for, and it's off we go. I'm really intrigued by your approach and how you said there was a whole prototyping process.
[00:06:42] Dave Keighron: Well, yeah, both Gelareh and I believe in a sort of a design-thinking process element. So how do we get from, okay, we have an idea, we're conceptualizing idea, how do we ideate that all into something that we actually could deliver to the market?
[00:06:53] So when we first started, we were really rough with this. We just threw it out there. We didn't know what to expect, [00:07:00] how it would be taken, like whether the students would uptake it, or what had changed and adapted and changed and adapted. We went from, at the very beginning, we actually prepared questions and we did this whole thing of preparing, then we quickly realized, well that's kind of boring 'cause it's not really conversation, it's not live conversation. So, then we adapted into these things of, we never did pre-interviews before, then we did pre-interviews just 'cause we found guests coming in when they were cold, uncomfortable, they felt a little bit nervous about it. So we wanted to make 'em more comfortable so we could have that natural conversation happening. So, we did those things, and we're constantly iterating.
[00:07:31] And what we're learning, not only in the podcast and changing the podcast all the time to respond to the customer, because at the end of the day, who's listening? How are they listening? What benefit are they getting out of it? If we're not responding to those customers, or to those listeners, then we're not going to be in existence. So, we're constantly looking for feedback, looking for Q and A back from customers to find out how can we better deliver this product.
[00:07:53] But we also are learning, and this is really interesting, about prototype, and ideating, and the creating element, is that we're getting all this knowledge that's coming [00:08:00] back into the institution, and what it's doing is shaping future courses and programs. Because now we need to get more directly aligned with what are the really to these, does industry need? Because sometimes us as educational elements, we tend to go back to the theory and the ideation of the knowledge and theory, and we tend to get lost in the knowledge and theory, and we forget about the application piece and we forget about connecting them to, hey, what does the business actually need? Because we're an applied school, yes we do some research, but we're mostly an applied school, so again, how do we get more of those students out and connecting with that market?
[00:08:33] Jennifer-Lee: You just said something really cool, Dave, because this is what I talk to people about all the time, is the fact that, you know, things are constantly changing, learning's changing. Like one of the podcast stats I read, is that 90% of people listen to podcasts to learn something. So why are institutions not all adapting this? Because at the end of the day, books are great and people like to read, and there's a time for books. But if there's another way that people [00:09:00] can learn while they're on the bus, or they're doing an activity, why not have your courses?
[00:09:05] I think you guys are, you're heading down such a great path that we're going to see more institutions, and maybe even younger years, like high school and stuff start to adapt to. Because not everybody is a reader too, not everybody learns the same way and there's so many different ways to learn.
[00:09:19] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: Well, absolutely. And also, we can see students and even the faculty, they learn a lot. We had it in the episode about BC Liquor's problem and challenges and legal [00:09:30] system. We got a lot of comments from faculty that they learn about the liquor stores, the faculty think that, oh, this is can be very good topic for the research.
[00:09:41] When Dave and I start this podcast, we didn't know anything, we just had a rough idea. Even we didn't know how long it would take. We just didn't have a deadline for our time episode, so we had one hour 45 minutes, even more, then we figured out, no, we shouldn't have more than 30 minutes. But then when received feedback, and we saw that this is not just for [00:10:00] students, also for faculty, also for business owners, because they shared the episode with others, and they actually came us and say that they want have another episode to explain what is doing now after a year. We are actually, Dave and I, we learn a lot.
[00:10:16] Also, after a while, we figure out, Dave and I, that we cannot, two of us just doing it. We need a team with us, help us. So that's why we had a producer, Tomas Renosa. So, for example, he will communicate with faculty, look at their syllabi, and look at how we can design assignments based on those episodes, how we can create a rubric for those episodes. Those are other stuff that we are doing it. You just not can have a podcast and put it out there and wishing someone to take it as assignments. It's a lot of work backstage to bring it and make it part of your syllabi and curriculum and it's, that's why Dave and I always need to make sure that we [00:11:00] are covering the main topics of different, different disciplines in business. It can be finance, it can be operations, it can be anything. It's not just about startups or entrepreneurs. So that's why we had to bring different guests, different type of guests, like director of finance, director of operation, you know, shouldn't be just business owners. We learn from the feedback we got, so we try to change our podcasts and respond to those needs as well.
[00:11:28] Dave Keighron: And I want to just quickly pick up on, Jennifer what you said last, and I think that we as institutions or anybody out there, we need to adapt to use the technology to meet the need of the customer. Like how do we create the user experience?
[00:11:40] Like education can be so much greater if we understand the user, and the user has different needs and how can we leverage podcasts and these things to create that educational experience. And also, move away from that element of that relationship we have, that professor-student, to let's create a center of learning. Let's create that element of a shared innovative element 'cause I learn as much from my students as they learn from me I hope, 'cause we have that collaboration piece. We open those doors towards collaboration 'cause they're thinking differently than what I'm thinking about. So how does that shape what we can learn from each other?
[00:12:12] Neil McPhedran: That's great. I think one of the really interesting unique things about your podcast is how you use it, and you mention that a bit, how you use it as part of your curriculum. So, a number of the podcasts, the higher education podcasts we've been chatting with, for example, are targeted at alumni, so it's just a [00:12:30] way to keep the alumni plugged into the university or other podcasts we've talked to, they're put out by the professor, but it's not necessarily part of his or her curriculum. I'm really curious, I think it'd be great for you to share a little bit with our audience, how you utilize the podcast itself and infuse it as part of your curriculum. It's not just a podcast you guys are doing, but it's actually a required listen that's similar to you assigning a book to read, this is a required part of your curriculum.
[00:13:01] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: We have a list of our episodes, and we have the courses, and we can say that, okay, this episode is fit for these courses. And then at the end of each episode, we have a challenge for students, so the instructor can see that, okay, this, okay, I can pick these episodes, and this is the challenge. Or they know that if they listen to that one and say that, okay, I will add these three [00:13:30] questions for this case, and I ask students to respond to three questions based on this case. So again, don't forget, our episode is a case episode. So, we are trying to make a case. So, then it's then faculty can use it as a case analysis. So, students should try to report, some faculty even go move forward and then bring those guests.
[00:13:50] Neil McPhedran: Mm-hmm.
[00:13:50] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: And ask those guests to review those assignments and give feedback to students. Real feedback, oh, thank you for your doing [00:14:00] it but this is actually, is not my value propositions. Actually, this is not very good fit to my market, actually I don't have a budget for this one, you know? So, it's a key if those real feedback has come from a business owner, a student will take it differently and they will really learn from them and they're trying to connect those theories to real work or to real problem. So that is how we're doing it.
[00:14:24] For two courses, absolutely this is mandatory part of, so that's of course the decisions, but the other courses for marketing, they are using it for asynchronous activity or guided learning activities. So, student listen to the podcast that they have to have discussions, they will figure out what to, how to solve that problem. So again, this is if you want to bring a podcast as a part of your work in curriculum, it's a lot of work on back with instructor, with course lead for course design with rubric as well, you [00:15:00] have to design a specific group rubric for those cases, so actually you can grade a student in the right way.
[00:15:06] Also, you need how, kind of like CRM system in the background because if I'm an instructor, I want to connect with these guests, how should I find the contact? How should I connect them? So those are the all the backstage activities that we have and that's why this producer, Tomas Renoso is really helping us to talking with faculty, talking [00:15:30] course and see what is missing, what they actually needed. And we, three of us would figure out trying to find guests for those specific topics. And then we trying to have, um, discussions around those topic with the guests. So yeah, you need to have a both side of understandings of the curriculum and also the business side of it, and try to bring them together in one episode, 30 minutes.
[00:15:54] Dave Keighron: Yeah, and I think one of the things that we've done, had a couple different elements, like Gelareh alluded to it, like having the client in the classroom doing presentations, but it has also gone to the point of, we've now seen that full circle of where we've had a client on an episode, then they've done a case study, and then it's gone to an internship or a capstone in order to complete that circle. Because you know, as Gelareh alluded, the element, there's another layer there. There's the networking layer, there's the soft skills, like we need to give students the opportunity to experience the soft skills, the communication skills, the leadership skills, the networking skills, those pieces. And so that is the iteration of where we're trying to ultimately get to, is this element of a full circle, a full iteration.
[00:16:34] Jennifer-Lee: When you were saying feedback from some of the guests to the students. I thought it's like a mini Shark Tank or Dragon’s Den that you guys are kind of creating, I love it. And I just want to give Tomas a shout out as well, because he's your wonderful producer that I've been working with for a while, and you said he takes, you know, a lot of time out to find the perfect guest for you guys.
[00:16:52] So I'm just wondering, what kind of conversations do you have with Tomas to make sure that you guys are ensuring the right guests for UCW?
[00:17:00] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: I think that this is how it started. We told him, it’s when he started, he's, okay, this is your guest and you need to put intro call, we need to talk to them, this is how you're going to do it. And then after a while, Tomas is telling us, I intro call with this person, this person is good for you for this specific topic. It's kind of changed. And he's telling us, because he has more connections right now with faculty, students. And also, Tomas is one of our alumni, so he knows the student body.
[00:17:31] Neil McPhedran: Hmmm.
[00:17:31] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: So, he will talk with the students, he will talk with faculty. He will figure it out. What's a gap, he will find guests, he do intro call and talk to us, and now we will take it over. So that is big part, Dave and I couldn't do everything by ourselves when we started.
[00:17:48] Dave Keighron: I think Gelareh too, it's all part of the learning circle. Like when we first started out, we're like, oh my God, we're interested in these things, let's go explore these things. And I think these would be really cool to bring back into the institution. But as you get going [00:18:00] and you start figuring things and some of you hit home runs and you're getting like, wow, we're getting so much listeners on this element. Some was like, oh, I didn't get as many listeners on this one.
[00:18:07] And I think going back to that same thing is that we're learning. As we go through the whole design thinking process, we’ve got to go back to who's listening. And I think you want the person that's closest to that person to be able to help us tell the ultimate story. So, I think bringing Tomas into the, the mix has really connected us back or closer to the student, the faculty elements. So, we can bring the faculty pieces in, but he's got a connection with the students. He understands what the student's needs, wants, and their desires are, and we can deliver a better show.
[00:18:32] Neil McPhedran: You mentioned a couple of times, which I think is great, that there's that feedback loop that you're getting from the listening audience. So how does that work? Are you looking at just analytics, or is there some call to actions that you're infusing into the podcast to get email or using social media, or can you just sort of pull that apart for us? How does that feedback loop look for you, and where are you getting that feedback.
[00:18:58] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: From a students or faculty?
[00:19:00] Neil McPhedran: I just mean in the general audience. There's a couple times you guys have just mentioned how that feedback and those comments you're getting about specific episodes, just sort of curious, what are your mechanisms for that feedback?
[00:19:10] Dave Keighron: Well, we're definitely looking at metrics around like who's listening, are people actually tuning in? We can see who's the viewership, how many downloads are coming, how many people are actually connecting with us. We're looking at these things, like where are they viewing it from it, and then we're also circling back and now we're starting to really look at all the feedback from reviews, saying, okay, well why do we get this review? [00:19:30] Let's go, let's unpack this element. Let's try and figure out, how do we shape the show to get that, you know, if we're hearing like that wasn't very engaging, okay, why was that not engaging? And then we're also getting feedback that are coming through questionnaires. So, Tomas does questionnaires with students and faculty elements to get us some feedback on those pieces and listening to those elements.
[00:19:48] So, you know, I wouldn't say we're, uh, great at it yet, I think we are really, in the last, probably last six months, we've started really going down this path to try and align these two metrics to try and figure out what is really the pulse of what the audience wants.
[00:20:02] Neil McPhedran: I think you're selling yourself short. You guys are a lot further along with that feedback loop than, uh, a number of podcasts. So, I think that's great 'cause there's so much good stuff that you can get. I really like how you're listening to that feedback and applying too, to future episodes as you move forward too.
[00:20:20] Do you find that because of the way you've set up these episodes, and they're case studies that you really, what you're creating is a whole catalog of evergreen content. Are you finding [00:20:30] that your first couple of episodes are still relevant and you can still use those or another profit, the school can use those? And so you're kind of building a whole a catalog of evergreen case studies that you're adding to versus it's not necessarily just about the next episode per se.
[00:20:45] Dave Keighron: Yes, we are, and actually Gelareh by, remind me, I need to go back to the library and let them know that they can do this. So, the library has just actually built in a system now that allows us to allow them to track all these episodes and make it easier for students and faculty to find. Um, so we are starting that evergreen content, but we're [00:21:00] also doing something different Neil. And what we're doing is we're going back to past guests and having conversations with them to see where they were way back when and how things have changed and how they have adapted. So we might have done a case study on them back then and maybe the students gave some input element and Wow, and we're coming back.
[00:21:16] We're also trying to bring in the student body, like we just did an episode recently with, well, one of my past students that actually took the learning in my classroom and actually put it into application, had some success. We want to make sure that we're telling some kind of a journey. Everything that we [00:21:30] design and create, we've got to think about the hero's journey. What's the ultimate goal that we're trying to do here? Yeah, we might be trying to create case studies, but we're also trying to tell some type of a story along the way, and the story is, not only is it the experiences of getting that networking and experience, but it's also how are students actually gaining from this?
[00:21:46] And we want to see the success of this. You know, we want to see the success of this in the story, you know, further down the road. So we want to make sure we're bringing all those parties back into it. So yes, we are using evergreen content in the long way around, but yeah.
[00:21:59] Neil McPhedran: That's great. Do you have any sort of final parting tips or advice to fellow higher education podcasters you want to impart?
[00:22:09] Dave Keighron: Well, I'll impart this to everybody. Stop thinking and start doing, because guess what? You can think, and you can analyze, and you'll never get to the ultimate solution. The only way you're going to get to the ultimate solution is to get out there, start doing, and listening to what you're doing.
[00:22:25] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: Also, I should say that, you know, a written case [00:22:30] study is often, is quite old because you need to find a case, you need to work on the case, you need to write a case, you need to get a peer review, you need to get a publication. So, this is going to be a little bit old, but also when you have a kind of podcast about the cases that you just have a discussion with them, what's their problem with that? And then there is no keynotes on these episodes, this is the good things about it. As we know in business there is not a [00:23:00] specific solution or a specific problem we can now look at the different solutions to solve a problem. And those type of cases actually help you solve it in different ways. And I think that it's a better way for doing a case analysis for students and faculty.
[00:23:17] Neil McPhedran: That's wonderful. That's good. That's good pieces of advice. Dave, your advice hearkens me back to the movie Blow from years ago with Johnny Depp and he's got a famous line in there, "Life passes most people by while they're making grand plans for it."
[00:23:30] You know, especially with the podcasting thing, I think that we can, like back to the prototyping conversation we were having, you just can plan and want to get your artwork proper and want to get your guests and your theme music proper, and all the kind of things you want to do. And really, it's just about getting going, and getting your feet out from underneath you, and finding your voice, and finding what you want to do. And you guys have obviously really sort of iterated and found your spot.
[00:23:55] Dave Keighron: Well, I think, and I think Reid Hoffman puts it best, you know, "Build your airplane as you're falling off the cliff." You know, like just put it together, like as it going, because you won't know until you know, you start doing.
[00:24:06] Neil McPhedran: Probably a better person to live by, than Johnny Depp's Blow character.
[00:24:14] Jennifer-Lee: Oh, that's great advice. And I think the biggest thing people don't realize is once you start your podcast, this is a long-term thing, but you can always add more people or add more help as you go. Like I jumped on, Tomas jumped on around the same time as me, and you guys were driving your bus and we kind of jumped in it, and you can always add more people to your bus.
[00:24:33] Dave Keighron: We haven't driven it off a cliff yet.
[00:24:36] Jennifer-Lee: Let's not. Thank you so much you guys. You guys are just so innovative and it's a pleasure to work with you guys all the time. So, Thank you.
[00:24:46] Dr. Gelareh Farhadian: Thank you.
[00:24:46] Neil McPhedran: Thank you. Yeah, you truly are. I mean, I think that, as Jen mentioned, we talked about last time, we're starting to work with more and more, what we call higher education podcasts, but we haven't come across one yet that uses the content as the curriculum and has such, and it's sort of embedded so much in into the business community and the student community. So, I'm really excited to see you, your journey, and I'm sure that there's going to be some folks listening to this, uh, episode that are going to have some good takeaways and some applications.
[00:25:15] Dave Keighron: Yeah, and let those folks know, if they want to collaborate, we are here to support. It takes a community to build these things.
[00:25:24] Jennifer-Lee: What another great conversation. I always just feel like I'm learning so much from every institution that we interview and everyone, I know we've said this a few times, but everyone is using their podcast in such a unique way that benefit them, and I love it.
[00:25:39] Like for University CanWest, I think it's so brilliant that they start their podcast off as a solution for some of the ways that they are conducting their teachings in the school, and like being able to have that feedback from students and for students to be able to multitask and listen to the podcast. And they would feature these great entrepreneurs, which they still do, and build the case studies around it.
[00:26:00] There's also another piece too, that we talked a little bit about, but didn't touch too much upon, is the fact that Dave will usually throw out a challenge at the very end. And yes, he throws it out to the students, and he asks the guests, what kind of challenge would you give them? And it usually to do with entrepreneurship, or whatever they talked about, and they really want the students to think about it, so they can discuss it in class. But also, it pertains to you and me as well. Because even they're throwing the challenge at the students, it gets us thinking about some of [00:26:30] the topics. And I love it because a lot of times in podcasting we're just listening, but I think this makes us more active listeners of like, oh, how do I solve that challenge in business and makes us go on? So again, I think what they're doing is brilliant. And Neil, what was your takeaway from today's episode?
[00:26:47] Neil McPhedran: They started out with this purpose for the podcast, and it was almost like an extension of the classroom and what they're teaching in the classroom. But along the way with the podcast, they had findings and learning that are now coming full circle into the classroom and affecting how they're teaching and how they're approaching things. And, you know, and specifically the networking side of things that they've discovered with this podcast. So, they started out by wanting to feature these smaller businesses 'cause a lot of the business schools, you know, focus on sort of big business as their case studies, so they thought, hey, let's do smaller business case studies.
[00:27:25] But as a result, it's turned into incredible networking opportunities for the students and a lot of students are actually coming out of these programs and finding jobs with, uh, some of these entrepreneurs and these opportunities, but it's also teaching the students those networking soft skills as well. So wasn't the intention and the purpose originally for the podcast, but it's evolved, and it's just grown and it's like that Lego piece almost to the classroom. And they're just working hand in hand and each one's kind of affecting the other. Like podcast is having an effect on what's being taught in the classroom and so on and so forth.
[00:28:00] So fascinating for sure. And I just think some really good learning for the audience of, you know, especially parts of the audience here who are just starting their podcasting journey of, you know, you definitely need your purpose from the get-go. But you never know where you're going to end up and it's just an interesting journey.
[00:28:15] Jennifer-Lee: Yeah, and like you said, people who are starting to think what they could take away is the fact that they're using this as a relationship building piece. Like you mentioned, it's a way to extend the relationships within the university, so then they are able to help their students really flourish because at the end of the day, when you leave a university, you're going to need help to get a job and you want to be able to get your foot in the door. So, I think this is a great win-win for everyone.
[00:28:39] Neil McPhedran: Yeah. Very cool. Okay, well, I think that's a wrap for this episode.
[00:28:43] Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring.
[00:28:52] If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an [00:29:00] episode. And if you've found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts.
[00:29:10] We also invite you to join the University Podcasters Network Group on LinkedIn. Just search for University Podcasters Network where you can connect with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. Thank you for being part of our community. We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights and conversations around higher education podcasting. See you in the next episode.