Continuing Studies: A Higher Education Podcast for University Podcasters

[00:00:00] Jen: Welcome to Continuing Studies, a podcast for higher education podcasters. In each episode, we talk to a university podcaster to ask some questions, get answers, and share tips and ideas about higher education podcasting.
[00:00:16] Hi, I'm Jennifer Lee. I'm a radio broadcaster and a podcaster.
[00:00:21] Neil: And I'm Neil McPhedran. I've come to podcasting after 25 years in the digital agency world. Together, we've hosted, executive produced, and launched seven, and counting, higher education podcasts. Please remember to follow Continuing Studies in your listening app of choice and drop us a rating and or a review. We'd love to hear your feedback. While you're at it, also join the University Podcaster Network on LinkedIn.
[00:00:51] Okay, Jen, and here we are for another Episode of Continuing Studies. Today is extra special for me. We're interviewing and talking about my alma mater, University of British Columbia or UBC.
[00:01:08] Jen: Yeah, I never went to UBC, and I wish I did after listening to this podcast all the time and working on it because it just sounds like a really fun campus.
[00:01:17] Neil: Just for full disclosure to our audience, we also work on this podcast and have for about a year and a half. The podcast itself is called From Here Forward. So, it was really fun to get into this and I think there's some really good learnings here.
[00:01:34] Jen: And our guest today are Carol Eugene Park, who's a Toronto based freelance writer. She is also a co host From Here Forward and podcast editor for Lively Academy's Leadership in Practice. Currently, Carol is a history graduate student at the University of Toronto and works in automotive advertising.
[00:01:53] Our other guest is Steve, the leader of Alumni UBC's communications department. He oversees the publication, the University of British Columbia magazine, and leads the marketing communications for Alumni UBC corporate partners. He's also responsible for amplifying UBC's impact through alumni engagement.
[00:02:13] Neil: That's great. And this podcast comes from the Alumni Association.
[00:02:17] Jen: I was really excited that we got to interview them. I love the topics that Carol and Jeevan discuss in this podcast. And I think I mentioned also that I'm a little bit of a fan of Carol's because I just think her personality is so engaging. So, let's move forward to talk to From Here Forward. Corny, but eh.
[00:02:40] Neil: Welcome Steve and Carol. Thanks for joining us on the Continuing Studies podcast.
[00:02:46] Steve: Great to be here. Thanks.
[00:02:48] Carol: Me too. I'm super excited. I don't know what you guys are going to ask me, but I'm so excited.
[00:02:51] Jen: I'm excited to have you guys because, like, Carol, I'm a big fan. I, uh, love listening to your podcast because I just think you've got the greatest humor and I would love to go for a drink with you because I feel like it would be, like, an amazing time.
[00:03:03] Carol: Oh god. Oh no, don't say that.
[00:03:07] Neil: I love it.
[00:03:09] Jen: I just feel like you're real. I was like, I want to kick it with you, even though like, I'm an old person. I'm a millennial. So, I,
[00:03:16] Carol: So am I!
[00:03:17] Neil: Well, why don't we just take a step back here and if you could each sort of just sort of tell us about your roles on From Here Forward.
[00:03:26] Steve: Sure. I oversee the alumni engagement. We have over 400,000 alumni globally now, and about half of them are very soon going to be under the age of 40. So, you know, attracting and maintaining a younger audience is something that we have to pay more attention to. Part of this growth is due to the fact that the graduating classes are larger now. So, uh, you know, it's a younger skewed audience and it caused us to want to, uh, explore the right ways to engage them. We knew through our more recent experience that the digital side of things, as opposed to in person events were what we're growing. And so, it just, it was a natural for us to think about a podcast as a way to connect.
[00:04:07] Carol: And I have the amazing opportunity to host, which is actually funny. The back story to this, I was very unemployed, like deeply unemployed core. And I had happened to apply to be a comms coordinator or anything for alumni UBC. And Steve rang me up and was like, hey, I like your voice. Do you want to do this? And I was like. Sure, let's do it. So, I'm the host and I did not ever see myself doing this, but it's been really cool. Um, I do love the sound of my voice, so that does help. And through hosting this, like I've learned to like UBC more. Is that controversial to say? I don't love School but learning about the people who go to school, and doing cool things has made me like school bit more. I don't know if that made sense.
[00:04:52] Jen: No, I get it. I always like learning about the stories of the people who have graduated, and they've gone on to have amazing careers because it just showcases the type of education that you are getting from the institution and the different possibilities that you can go on and be successful.
[00:05:07] Carol: Yeah, that's definitely something I've taken away where I'm like, oh, I don't need to go into the corporate world. Like there are so many people doing interesting things that I didn't even think was a job.
[00:05:16] Jen: I know I learned that you want to have a farm from one of the episodes.
[00:05:19] Carol: I do. And see, I wouldn't have known about that dream until we had that amazing farm assist on a show. So, the more, you know,
[00:05:28] Neil: Steve curious about the name From Here Forward.
[00:05:31] Steve: Well, we, um, have a campaign, which is kind of a generic term that our institution use for fundraising predominantly. And generally speaking, those campaigns have some form of, uh, you know, theme or tagline. And so, what ultimately, we worked together on was a branding campaign for the university called Forward Happens Here, and then an extension of that Forward, The Campaign for UBC. So, to delineate those two efforts a little bit, but also to have obviously sort of a common umbrella with the use of the word forward. So, when we decided to do the podcast, we explored through some research, a variety of different names, many of which had a connection with forward. And then it just so happened that was the name that shot up to the top of the list, you know, by quite a large margin, which kind of surprised us because it didn't really stand out to us much when we did the, uh, initial brainstorming. So, I don't know how you guys feel about that, as like outsiders, so to speak, how compelling that is?
[00:06:27] Jen: For me, it is compelling. I feel like the topics that you have and the people that you have on aren't just limited to UBC. Yeah, they went to UBC and had a great education, but their story relates to so many people. And a lot of their businesses are things that we use, or we know of, or it's just inspirational. I like figuring out if they, you know, succeeded, where they stumbled, how they got to where they are? And, and again, I think that's like an age-old story that we can all relate to. It's not specific, like you guys are on there for like 45 minutes going UBC, UBC, UBC. You're telling us the great stories that UBC has to offer. And I don't think it's limited to people that haven't gone there.
[00:07:06] Steve: Yeah, that's really good to hear. I think that, um, just to add a one little piece to this too. I mean, when we started developing the overall positioning of the campaign, one of the ideas, the central idea that emerged was that really the notion of what we called urgent optimism. You know, which was that we don't want to be negative, but we also want to say, hey, like things aren't great, you know, but the, we have solutions and we're aggressively moving forward with those solutions. So, from here forward is kind of reflection of that. And I'm glad to hear you say that your takeaway from listening is that you have these people, whether they're embedded faculty or whether they're alumni who are demonstrating that.
[00:07:43] Jen: I love struggle stories because it makes you feel so inspired. Because the thing is, it's like when you go to university, no one really talks to you about what's going to happen after. So, I think it's just creating a reality that these are real people that have gone out, they have a great foundation underneath them, but really, they have to be the ones that propel themselves forward. And I think that's the biggest misconception from any post secondary education is that you're going to graduate and someone's going to be like, here's a job! And so, I think you guys create a positiveness to it, but you're also creating a reality, I really wish I had more reality sandwiches when I went to university.
[00:08:23] Neil: Okay. So, I think one of the things I'd love to dig into here is a few episodes back, you change hosts, and I think that's a pretty big deal for a podcast. I think losing your co host, Carol, for a lot of other podcasts would be the end of it. So, let's start with Steve. Steve, so the previous host says, I've got too much going on in my life, I have to back out of this responsibility. Steve, you've put a lot behind getting this podcast up and going. You've got like a number of resources on your end, and people on your end that are putting the show together. And so, maybe just for the audience, tell us a little bit about your reaction and how you navigated through that, because I think for university podcasts, especially this probably isn't super rare, people graduate, faculty move to other universities. So, I'd love to just sort of dig into how you both have sort of navigated through this.
[00:09:26] Steve: Well, yeah, if you don't mind, maybe I'll back up a little bit and just explain off the top that, you know, my call to Carol wasn't random. We had looked around and explored how we might construct a podcast. And a lot of the providers that were around at that time were I mean, I don't mean to say this too critically, but they were sort of aged out radio industry people that were trying to kind of create a new life for themselves. It didn't make sense to have like a shock jock from the eighties trying to be this kind of, you know, spokesperson for the university. And what made sense was that we find hosts that were authentically, you know, connected to the audience. And so, you know, that meant obviously people that are younger, and a certain amount of irreverence for the subject matter, but also a certain respect for it as well. So just that tension of being able to kind of create accessibility and entertainment for things that at times can be very complicated topics, but to kind of just make it work.
[00:10:23] So we had this sort of construct in our head and then I stumbled across Carol and Rumneek's podcast that already existed. They were both University of British Columbia journalism graduates, so it was sort of a no brainer and an easy fit. We heard that Rumneek had to leave. It was really a question of how do we maintain the voice of the program? That we have with minimal disruption and seemingly we've done a very good job in that.
[00:10:46] Neil: How did you find the replacement? Obviously, you wanted someone that would work well and fit well with Carol. What was your outreach strategy and like, where did you go to look for that replacement?
[00:10:58] Steve: Well, I mean, really what happened was it was Rumneek who made the recommendation, right? So once again, there was already a model in my mind about, minimizing disruption and maintaining the tone.
[00:11:08] Neil: Carol, over to you. This was your second podcast with Rumneek at the time, so you've built up tremendous rapport. And then so what was sort of your feeling and how has the process of getting in tune and getting aligned with the new co host gone?
[00:11:24] Carol: I'm going to be so candid. I was really mad. Because so like you said this was our second time doing it and I had just like just gotten over our first podcast being canned. And so, I just gone through the five stages of grief and then she tells me that she has all these big dreams and all this all these things she wants to do and I'm like but what about me? Like why are you leaving me? And if you haven't caught on, I just took this really personally. On one hand, I was very excited for her, obviously, but immediately my thought was, oh my god, like, this podcast is gonna end. Like, I don't see it continuing if it's, you know, the whole branding was around us.
[00:12:02] So then once I got over my own ego and I got connected to Jeevan, it was just kind of like a natural fit. I mean, on one hand, I was nervous because a, she's younger than me, so I was like, how is she going to make me look cool. But then when we got to talking, I was just like, you know what? She's cool. She's kind of giving me, like, the older sister vibe that I really can lean into, and the chemistry was naturally there. And I shouldn't have questioned it because it was off Rumneek's recommendation. Ironically, the positions have switched, where I used to stress Rumneek out with things that I might say on the podcast, and now I'm just constantly confused with all the Gen Z lingo that comes out of Jeevan's mouth. Like today, I was texting her, and she was like, let her cook, let her cook, and I still don't know what that means. And I'm too embarrassed to text her.
[00:12:47] So, overall, it's been great. And, yeah, I guess once you get over the fact that things are constantly changing, the turnover is going to be there, especially in a university setting. And you go through your own five stages of grief, and that's fine.
[00:13:00] Jen: What was your original podcast? I want to know, like, what was it about? Because I want to know what caught Steve's attention about it.
[00:13:09] Carol: You know, actually, I also don't know the answer, but ours was a daily news explainer podcast. And so, we took like the major headlines of the day, and we made it a bit more palatable, we made it more fun, and then we got canned, and then we were sad. And then...
[00:13:22] Jen: how did you get canned? Were you doing it for someone? Or was it just for yourself?
[00:13:26] Carol: Oh yeah. We were part of Overstory Media Group, a media startup in Vancouver, and we were their first project. And we lasted for three months live, I think. And within the journalism space, we got so much great feedback. And the thing about the journalism world is that like everyone is obsessed with each other and of themselves. And so, we listen slash read everything that everyone else is doing. And so, we thought we were killing it but then you know stuff happens and the rest is history.
[00:13:54] But, it taught me that I love to hear myself speak. So, because before I was like I want to be a producer but then I actually really enjoy being live. And like going out and like sticking microphones in front of people's faces and like making them uncomfortable and making jokes and stuff. So, it was a great learning experience.
[00:14:12] Jen: You're natural. I love it.
[00:14:14] Carol: This is me unfiltered.
[00:14:15] Jen: Oh, that's good. But I think, you know, kind of going back to our earlier conversation, the thing is, it's like, that's reality. Things happen. You get canned. You guys kept going on with it. Steve heard it, was inspired, picked you guys up, didn't want any washed-up broadcasters like myself and moved on
[00:14:37] Carol: That is the funniest thing. I mean, what is washed up broadcaster?
[00:14:42] Neil: Jen obviously is not going to let this go Steve, okay, so two years into from here forward. Uh, Steve, curious, what have you learned? Where has it kind of changed or not changed? Where, where's it going? What can you share two years in with your experience so far managing From Here Forward?
[00:14:57] Steve: I think to some degree it's sort of more of the same. We talked about sort of the right voice and that's, you know, the show has sort of hit its stride that way. And I think continue to explore a range of topics from innovations that are happening at the university to the struggles and successes of alumni to quirky things that we can drill into that allow us to tap into the expertise of folks at the university, I think, is in a new area that we'll be developing as well.
[00:15:22] So I just, I think we're, we set the stage for a little bit of a broader scope of content, which I think is, is helpful. And then, you know, it's just about learning from experience. I look back at some of our numbers and our highest number of listens was the sort of exit interview we did for the Santa Ono, the president, who is very, very popular. But you know, immediacy, I guess, is another thing to take advantage of when we can too. Because I think that in that particular instance, that's what it was all about.
[00:15:46] Neil: Yeah, that's a good point. Carol, what about you? Two years in as the host. What have you learned along the way?
[00:15:52] Carol: I just want to give a shout out to Kylé. Like, I feel like what makes hosting fun, especially for From Here Forward, is knowing that no matter how unfiltered we are, like, she will just make us sound good, and she'll kind of bring us together, and so, I've learned a lot. Working with a producer like her has been really great. Not that it wasn't with you, Neil. You were also amazing.
[00:16:13] Jen: What are some other pieces of advice, besides having a rockstar producer, that you could give someone for starting out? Steve let's start with you.
[00:16:21] Steve: Just having a very clear vision of what you want to achieve, and making sure that vision is grounded in something. You know, we had the benefit of a lot of exploration we did when we revamped our magazine. So, we have a magazine that's published twice a year in print, and we have an online presence. And, you know, the podcast kind of is woven into that now, because the online magazine is kind of our media platform for anything related to the university. That really clear understanding really helped us.
[00:16:46] Neil: I think that's really good advice.
[00:16:48] Jen: Any advice you would give to someone starting out?
[00:16:51] Neil: Especially from a host perspective.
[00:16:53] Carol: Ooh, um, you have to lean into the cringe. Um, basically, don't be afraid of sounding a little silly or embarrassing. I mean, even when I listened to the very first episode that we've ever done for From Here Forward, I Physically cringe. Because I'm like, why did I sound like that? What was my situation? Like, you know, practice has made permanent. Is that the right phrase? Um, but like just learning.
[00:17:18] Jen: Perfect.
[00:17:19] Carol: No, no, no. Perfect is an illusion. Um, but just learning, just being okay. Um, with sometimes sounding like an idiot, um, having grace for yourself. And then also for people like me who just, you know, never naturally had curiosity for their institutions. Like, being curious about people that went to this place and having an open mind. The stories we tell ourselves are often not the stories that we actually have. So, there's your little nugget of wisdom for today.
[00:17:46] Neil: I like that. just sort of riffing off of Carol you give the show or the team that works on the show. So, Kylé, Jeevan and Carol, a lot of leash, let's just say, like not super controlling over it. You've kind of let this thing create its life of its own. What's sort of your thinking behind that? Because I think that the tendency would be for someone in your role to want to kind of really control things to really control the story and to control the narrative. But as Carol was saying you've given a lot of leeway here. Sort of give us a little bit of insight into that especially to those listening who may be the control freaks out there of just sort of letting go a little bit.
[00:18:23] Steve: I think as a lesson learned that was something I was going to actually add, was that giving enough sort of air to let the show find its way. So, I kind of went in with that sort of mentality and I also was you know Paying attention to what other people were saying. So, I was certainly prepared to step in and say, okay, I think we've stepped over the line here, but it didn't really feel necessary. I was able to defend at times if I had to any sort of feedback that I thought was unwarranted. You know? So, I mean, it wasn't like I was caving in and going, oh yeah. It was like, no, I was, you're wrong, you know, and this is why, you know. And I think it's about authenticity yet again. I mean, you can't over prescribe and remain authentic, you know.
[00:19:05] Jen: I guess the other thing that I wanted to discuss with you is like, obviously you have a plethora of amazing people you can choose from for guests. But what do you to decide on who would be a great guest? Because just because somebody has an impressive resume doesn't necessarily, they might be a great podcast guest.
[00:19:25] Steve: Yeah. I mean, I guess you're right. I mean, there's a lot of stuff going on here, so I just sort of try to keep my ear close to the ground. And we also have a thing with our magazine called Spotlight Seams that lasts six months. And so, we're currently in a theme about Gen Z and the student experience. So, we're gonna, in that spotlight kind of window, do something related. So that's part of it as well. But I mean, there is a lot out there. So, it quite frankly isn't as difficult to find something that seems like it would work. And sometimes things just crop up. If I get excited about something I see, we'll take advantage of it.
[00:19:59] Carol: Like bbno$.
[00:20:00] Jen: Baby what?
[00:20:02] Steve: Baby No Money...
[00:20:04] Neil: bbno$.
[00:20:05] Steve: I was actually just looking at him today for another reason. His main song that he uploaded the day he graduated from UBCO is now close to a billion downloads on Spotify.
[00:20:15] Jen: Oh, he's a singer! See, look, I'm uncool. I have no clue this person existed.
[00:20:20] Carol: Don't worry, I also did not know who he was. When Steve sent that email, I was like, whomst?
[00:20:24] Steve: I had no clue either.
[00:20:27] Jen: Um, one more question for you guys, which I think is a fun one too, is um, I know what my favorite episode was this past, uh, year and that was the wine episode because I thought it was hilarious and I also love wine. What are your guy’s favorite episodes you've done so far?
[00:20:44] Carol: The wine one was really fun, but mostly it was because we got PR, so that made it extra fun. But I think my favorite one was about the wildfire just because our guest was so vulnerable and it was like kind of the first time where we were able to talk with an academic who didn't come off as like an academic, quote unquote. Like she was just a human telling us about her experience and her research and really humanized what we were seeing on the news. And so that was really fun to me. I learned a lot, didn't cry, but all but felt feelings. So that was a great one.
[00:21:17] Steve: Yeah, for me, I mean, it's a, I can't really comment on what I liked on the basis of overall appeal to a broader audience, because I think, it's more personal. You know, and I really enjoyed the Santa exit interview one because I worked with him, and I knew him pretty well. So just to hear what his sort of takeaway was of his experiences that I shared to some degree was nice. And then I also really appreciated the one with, uh, Pieter Cullis, who was the contributor to this, the COVID vaccine, which you really, in a somewhat controversial way, wasn't nominated for a Nobel prize. So just to like have a chance to get to know and get exposed to people like that here and in this sort of role that I have is pretty interesting. And he's a really, really interesting guy too. He has a really interesting attitude towards what success is, you know, which involves a lot of partying apparently, but at the same time, he's done a lot of incredible stuff.
[00:22:11] Jen: All those episodes are really super inspirational, and of course we're going to link to all those episodes in the show notes so you can take a listen as well.
[00:22:18] Carol: I have a question. Neil, since you were with us from the beginning, like what is your experience been like with us.
[00:22:24] Neil: I mean, it's the school I went to. So, like, that to me has been the really interesting part. I think that it's easy to become removed. Like I graduated a long time ago. And so, I, funnily enough, I live only a couple of kilometers away from the university and I have a running route that's there. But my attachment to the university is, I would say, nonexistent. And so being part of this show, um, has definitely made me proud to be an alumni of the, University of British Columbia.
[00:23:01] And Carol, we're far apart in age and sort of life experience, but we both went to UBC and Steve too. And so, I think there's a thread of connection there too. So, I think, you know, overall, it's helped me, I think, become reattached, I guess, to my school that I went to and, you know, unearthed some memories and whatnot. So, I've quite enjoyed it actually. You just flipped it on me, Carol.
[00:23:27] Jen: I love it, Carol.
[00:23:31] Neil: Well, that's great. Thank you, Carol and Steve for joining us. That's been really interesting. And so extra special episode for me. And Jen, you went to UVIC, so you don't understand because it's just not the same.
[00:23:46] Jen: I wanted to escape from my family, that's why I went to UVIC.
[00:23:52] Neil: And for the rest of the listening audience out there, University of Victoria, University of British Columbia, there's a little bit of a rivalry there, so that's why.
[00:23:59] Jen: It's okay, we still work together on this podcast, it's fine.
[00:24:05] Neil: Okay, thank you guys.
[00:24:07] Carol: This was great, thank you so much.
[00:24:10] Jen: They're so fun to talk to. I feel like I could sit down and talk with them over some drinks, and I would love to interview them again. Also learning so much about their podcast. And what really stuck out for me was how Steve actually took some time to think about who he wanted as a host. Because a lot of times in colleges and universities, it's usually the students that start the podcast and they have an idea or it's different professors that start the podcast and then they take it from there. But the fact that Steve was actually looking for a host, looking for somebody that Might've had a journalism background, was a little bit more professional, was young, could speak to the young voices and had an actual successful podcast on a major publication. He really took his time to figure out who would be the right fit. So that stuck out for me. What about you, Neil?
[00:25:03] Neil: Yeah, I think, you’re right about how strategic Steve was in the beginning when he was, uh, considering a podcast and to your point, um, he was quite judicious about selecting the host. But also, he'd really thought through how the podcast was going to fit into the overall communication mix. They've got a magazine, they've got an email, you know, they've have their website and their social media handles, etc. But, uh, me had really thought through how the podcast was going to fit into that mix, um, and how they were going to be able to use the content throughout those other channels as well too. So, I thought that was, um, I thought that was excellent.
[00:25:51] Jen: I also like the fact that Carol discussed what it was like to lose a co host because it is so difficult when you build a rapport with somebody and then they change on you. And same goes with a podcast as well. So, the fact that, you know, she was disappointed and now you got, again, another person and you got to create that rapport with them. But I just thought the way that she handled it, she took it very professionally and found some really great things about her new co host Jeevan and really jumped into it. And I think they also have a really great bond as well, but it just takes time to get that rapport, especially when you don't know the person and you jump into a speaking engagement with them.
[00:26:32] Neil: Yeah. And the feelings are natural, but her being able to embrace the new relationship obviously, uh, has been super, uh, beneficial. I also think it kind of goes back to the, almost the leeway that Steve gave them. You know, we talk, we were talking about how strategic Steve was and who was going to be the host and what the direction of the content was going to be. But then he really let Carol and Rumneek, the first host, really find their voice. He gave them a lot of leeway and room editorially to figure out the voice of the podcast and whatnot. And I think that was also helpful in changing up the host. Because Carol, I think, felt like she was able to sort of figure out that with the new host.
[00:27:18] But this is a great example of it's an inevitable, especially in this case, that people move on. Um, and so this great example of the show must go on, we can keep going. When we first heard Rumneek was leaving, I was super disappointed. And the first thing I thought was, oh, shoot. This thing is done now, but that wasn't even a thought for Steve. And Carol, I think felt kind of the same, but she quickly realized, hey, no, we can keep going. So, we talk about how important the hosts are, but you can keep moving forward and hosts can be replaced, and you can find your groove.
[00:27:54] Jen: But what we learnt is that you're never allowed to leave me because I don't want to have to deal with finding a new host. So, there you go. And we're going to wrap it up.
[00:28:02] Neil: Bring it back to us. I like that. Well, this is our podcast.
[00:28:06] Jen: On that note, thank you again for listening to another episode of Continuing Studies.
[00:28:12] Neil: That was excellent. Thanks. See you next time.
[00:28:14] Jen: Bye.
[00:28:15] Neil: Thank you for tuning into the Continuing Studies Podcast, a podcast for higher education podcasters. We hope you found this episode informative and inspiring. If you enjoyed the show, we encourage you to follow and subscribe to our podcast on your preferred platform, so you'll never miss an episode. And if you've found this episode particularly valuable, please consider sharing it with your friends and colleagues who also might be interested in higher education podcasts.
[00:28:44] We also invite you to join the University Podcasters Network group on LinkedIn. Just search for University Podcasters Network, where you can connect with other podcasters in higher education and learn from others in the field. Thank you for being part of our community. We look forward to continuing to bring you valuable insights from conversations around higher education podcasts. See you in the next episode.